Thanks - Now THAT is definitive !! It has been very interesting to get all the different inputs, and opinions. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my question. I been away for a few days so couldn't comment. Back home now - just finished plowing the driveway - come on SPRING !!
Ballast Tell me about filling rear tires with Kubota cab
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art
Super Member
RickB said:
Rick, I like them light so we can make them perform better in the desired applications! Structually they have been very solid, only with some after market components have they had trouble unlike some of the others. Some of the other makes we sell in different classes also allow us to set them up to be outstanding in there work. To many people want to make their tractors like a payloader instead of a tractor and they pay every time they move them after. I've used them both ways and I'll still maintain to many of the tractors are to fat and it shows when given head to head demo's in a variety of chores. For those that want a dedicated construction machine then Kubota offers the B-26, L-39,L-48 with hydraulics and weight to balance them.
RickB
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art said:
Art, I read this two hours ago, and I swear I was not going to respond, but I can't help it. Based on the info you and others have provided, it is clear to me that not one poster is suggesting ballasting any tractor beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Certainly overweighted tractors are not efficient. The term light, lightweight, fat, heavy, and overweight dogs are meaningless without specifying what tractor is performing what jobs with what accessories and implements. That information helps define whether a tractor is ballasted properly or not. It is perfectly fine to sell a CUT with a MMM and not an ounce of ballast on it if mowing is going to be the bulk of that tractor's work. Drop the MMM, install a FEL on that same tractor, (and I don't care what color it is) and sell it unballasted, you have just done your customer a disservice. Light? Nimble? Sure, but the front axle driveline will be handling much more of the torque load than it should, and that driveline lifespan will be shorter than the same combination with rear ballast. Guaranteed. So what was a properly ballasted tractor now is inadequately weighted. Tire wear will be greater with an inadequately ballasted tractor due to excessive wheel slip on the rear axle and overtorquing the fronts. Fuel efficiency suffers as we move in either direction from optimal ballasting FOR THAT APPLICATION.. What about safety? Less rear ballast means more time with one or both rear wheels losing contact with the ground during loader work. Too light is as bad as too heavy. You keep harping about overweight tractors. My opinion is most CUT's require rear ballast to be safe and effficient. Some(but not all) exceptions would be tractors without FEL's and tractors with backhoes that will be mounted the vast majority of the time. Tractors should be equipped to best do what they will be doing the majority of the time. It is as simple as that.
Funny, I have a tractor with loader and hoe. The hoe is about 3000# and I had to fill the tires to allow the machine to back up excavation slopes. 6' rise over 35' run. Otherwise with a full bucket, it would unload the rear tires and just sit there (2wd).
I fall in the "fat boy" camp and think that nearly every CUT should be weighted if it is sold with a FEL. Most common exclusion would be for machines that mow. I also feel that the sum of counter wieght x distance from front axle should equal or exceed by 25% the FEL bucket + max load weight x distance from front axle.
Obvously, a CUT is not an end loader, but a poorly balanced, under weighted machine leads the operator to abusive FEL technique. That's not optimum. Neither is an over weighted machine used primarily for grounds work. Match the machine to the task. My contention is that most CUT operators will benefit more than they will lose from filled tires.
I fall in the "fat boy" camp and think that nearly every CUT should be weighted if it is sold with a FEL. Most common exclusion would be for machines that mow. I also feel that the sum of counter wieght x distance from front axle should equal or exceed by 25% the FEL bucket + max load weight x distance from front axle.
Obvously, a CUT is not an end loader, but a poorly balanced, under weighted machine leads the operator to abusive FEL technique. That's not optimum. Neither is an over weighted machine used primarily for grounds work. Match the machine to the task. My contention is that most CUT operators will benefit more than they will lose from filled tires.
art
Super Member
RichB, I'm not saying to not ballast! I am saying to watch what you are ballasting and to try and maintain a balance. With a loader and (unloaded bucket) you only need 65% to 70% of your weight on the rear.
There are also different ways to ballast and some are better in the long run for longeviety of the tractor as well as fuel dollars in the pocket.
There are some sizes of tractors that benifit better from different types of ballast. Some makes and models (same tractors) and a few extra's added in shouldn't need as much extra ballast for a loader for general use as others depending on the tire combinations.
To have a tractor over ballasted will often first show up with loader arm or bucket failure.
There are also different ways to ballast and some are better in the long run for longeviety of the tractor as well as fuel dollars in the pocket.
There are some sizes of tractors that benifit better from different types of ballast. Some makes and models (same tractors) and a few extra's added in shouldn't need as much extra ballast for a loader for general use as others depending on the tire combinations.
To have a tractor over ballasted will often first show up with loader arm or bucket failure.
Art,
"To have a tractor over ballasted will often first show up with loader arm or bucket failure."
I have not heard of that; would not relief valving prevent lifting more than the system rating? Can you explain the dynamics of that?
"To have a tractor over ballasted will often first show up with loader arm or bucket failure."
I have not heard of that; would not relief valving prevent lifting more than the system rating? Can you explain the dynamics of that?
art
Super Member
I've yet to see a piece that a customer can't break! If the relief valve is not adjusted right, yes, the next weakest link sticks out. I've seen machines of all sizes break for different reasons. The best manufacturer is only as good for quality of build as the weakest link on the assembly line.
I'm not refering to anyone or make, things do break and I'm only trying to guide as I don't know the exact circumstances of every tractors life. We get to see alot when you sell hundreds of units yearly.
I'm not refering to anyone or make, things do break and I'm only trying to guide as I don't know the exact circumstances of every tractors life. We get to see alot when you sell hundreds of units yearly.
Art,
"If the relief valve is not adjusted right, yes, the next weakest link..."
That is true regardless of the component. If tires are under-pressured, coolant or lubrications levels not maintained, or any other maintenance related item is neglected, well yes, the system will eventually reflect some failures. It is a system.
Secondarily, you assert "over ballasted".
No one here has recommended "over" ballasting. All of the recommendations were in-line with the manufacturers recommendations.
Ballasting rear tires to manufacturer specifications with liquid and or wheel weights is well within normal operating procedures, per the manufacturer.
"If the relief valve is not adjusted right, yes, the next weakest link..."
That is true regardless of the component. If tires are under-pressured, coolant or lubrications levels not maintained, or any other maintenance related item is neglected, well yes, the system will eventually reflect some failures. It is a system.
Secondarily, you assert "over ballasted".
No one here has recommended "over" ballasting. All of the recommendations were in-line with the manufacturers recommendations.
Ballasting rear tires to manufacturer specifications with liquid and or wheel weights is well within normal operating procedures, per the manufacturer.