Tell victom or not?

[Richard]

Yesterday, I had a fortunate/unfortunate opportunity of being witness and second person at head on car collision.

Without getting into sordid gore, two vehicles, the "offender" vehicle was driving in opposing traffic's lane and hit the "victom". Other witnesses thought she was bent on suicide (if so, she was in fact..successful) based on her swerving in/out of lanes including opposing traffic. Second thought was drunk.


As I also was witness, I saw "victom" vehicle careen, I have the "slow motion, LORD tell me this isn't happening" vision burned into my memory of seeing the father being flung out of his window and being tossed like a rag doll though the air and onto the ground.

Upshot, I got to this gentleman who was initially unconsious. He slowly came around, though obviously dazed. His right foot was simply ripped off, hanging on by some skin & maybe tendons. His left leg was definately broke completely in two, however, no bone protrusions. Lacerations on face, hands, head blah blah... Very suprised if he doesn't have many internal injuries.

His child was the least (evidently) hurt. The child WAS hurt, but no obvious broken bones, just a "more than little" cut on his face, so he looked VERY bad. The childs (maybe 13 years old) legs were crimped by the vehicles door/seat and that seemed to be his primary source of pain.

Upshot, Father & son hear each other moaning/screaming in pain. Father is obviously not feeling pain & high on adrenalin (sp?). He was adament that he was going to get to his son. I can't blame him. He lifted himself from the gutter to sitting position, reached hand to me for me to pull him up, I finally got him to lay back down.

I was the one with him trying to keep him still & do what I could to comfort him. I knew that I and others had called 911 so it was only minutes before they would be there.

During his attempts to arise (him not knowing both legs were broke) I tried to make him understand that the wheels were already turning to get help. He asked what happened and I told him what I saw & knew about the accident. He asked how his boy was and I told him that which I perceive to be the truth given I'm out of my element. I ALSO described his obvious injuries to him. From his feet/legs to lacerations. I was calm, tried to be soothing but I did NOT want to lie to him. I told him everything straight up.

Because they were both visually in bad shape with LOTS of blood, one of my main concerns was to prevent father/son from seeing each other. Their proximity had them such that they coudn't easily see each other but coud hear each other. I tried to intermediate with each to calm them. I feared that if either one saw the other (or themself) the depth of their situation might cause even MORE stress on them.

Upon talking to my Wife about this, she was shocked. She thought I might have been out of bounds telling him his "real" visual condition. She thought I should have said something like, "your're ok..don't worry" or something touchy/feely like that.

I maintained to her last night that I felt what I did was the right thing, and if presented with same situation, I would NOT hesitate to be honest again. I think if I were the father, I would want to know. Even if I'm alone & I'm the victom..I think I'd want to know.


Opinions?

Richard

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Richard, there are some who think you were right, and some who think your wife was. Of course, I've been on the scene of many accidents and injuries. I won't intentionally lie to anyone; try to tell them the truth (facts, not my opinion), so I'd be a little careful about giving too many details (too easy to drift into opinions and it's hard to make an accurate evaluation of injuries on the scene and don't want to tell someone something that later turns out to be wrong).

Bird

 

[dmccarty]

Richard,

Since the guy was calmed downed and not trying to get to his child I think you did the right thing. Certainly keep to the facts and don't lie for the most part. I'm not sure I would tell the truth to a parent who was injured that their child was dead. In that case the kid is gone and the parent has to be treated. The parent is the first priority. Having an emotional/freaking out patient is not going to be easy to treat. That is a situation I don't ever want to face. One of the worst incidents officers, fire fighters, EMTs, etc., have to deal with involve injured or deceased children. Don't want to go there....

Some people are just very emotional. What is said has to be judged by the circumstances as they stand at each incident.

The only thing that I think was a no no was moving the injured man. He was obviously seriously hurt and he could have had neck or spine injuries. I was told in my first responder class about an accident. The injured driver got out of the car and sat down on the curb. An officer/EMT got there and told the man to stay still and not move. For some reason the man moved, I think he turned his head, and he cut his spinal cord. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Don't know if the story is true but it drive the point home. Don't move people who are injured and might have hurt their spine or neck. Keep them still until the EMTs can stablize them and transport them safely.

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[TerryinMD]

Richard,

How could anyone provide advise after the fact?

It is unimaginable to think how I or anyone else would respond any differently to a similar situation. Those that have witnessed or have been trained to respond to serious accidents are passing along valuable information that, hopefully, will never be required.

You handled the situation as best you could and provided solice and comfort to the father.

Take it easy,
Terry

 

[Richard]

I agree with sentiments on moving. To be clear, HE moved himself. When I arrived, he was lying half on sidewalk, half in road. Belt was on curb, tummy to head in streat, belt & below was on sidewalk.

He came around and I tried my best to get him to listen & stay still. he STILL managed to righten himself, sit up (all the while, his feet were...never mind) reach out for me to help him and I just tried to be as stern & clear as I could that he HAD to be still.

He COMPLETELY turned himself around and finally was laying on his back, feet completely up on sidewalk.

It was here that I presume he started being cognizant that "something was wrong" and started to listen to me somewhat.

I guess people don't know how they will react until put into a situation. My wife would have told you I would pass out here. In fact, there were maybe 7 "helpers" that stopped. Primarily all were witness to events. One man saw dead lady (I think) & went out to direct traffic, myself & male teenager went to father & son and tried to do what we could when they started showing life.

Virtually all the others were freaking out. One was in middle of road kneeling while hands were over head and doing a bowing type movement all the while SCREAMING for love, peace & for "someone" to help, (was really bizarre...then she got in car & drove away /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif) others were standing at a distance, shaking with tears & emotions.

In hindsight, I think the teenager & myself were probably the two most collected there followed by the guy directing traffic.

(no offense to the women intended)

had his child indeed appeared dead, I don't know that I would have said anything. As it was, his child was VERY energetic in his evidence of pain and alertness to his situation though he was still somewhat dazed by the shear impact.

Richard

 

[MossRoad]

Richard, in my opinion you did the right thing by staying calm, attempting to keep the victim from moving and aggravating his injuries. Also, since the child looked intact and alert, you did the right thing to calm the father by telling him this. And you kept assuring him that help was on the way. What else could you have done? You did far better than most in that situation and I applaud you.

<font color=green> MossRoad </font color=green>

 

[dmccarty]

Sorry Richard,

I went back and looked at my post and it was not worded correctly. I did not mean to imply that you had moved the man. I had picked up from your post that HE was moving when you arrived. The problem I was trying to address was the man moving. Hope that makes sense this time! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif It took me at least three attempts to get the last few sentences even remotely on target! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Second guessing critical incidents is not helpful. Learning from what went wrong/right in a critical incident is helpful and important. I think you did the right thing.

People react differently in these situations. Even a person who behaves OK at one critical incident may do something completely different in a similar situation. Its just being human I suppose. I'm amazed at what one sees at accidents/incidents. Some people just freak out and are a danger to themselves and others. They also can hinder rescues. I think its somewhat cultural as well. I saw a training tape of a group of Correction Officers getting pepper sprayed. Most handled it calmly. Others just freaked out and had to be physically restrained. All the people had just been through the same training but there was a difference in how they handled the stress. Each person knew what would happen to them but how they reacted was completely different....

The point about minimizing/preventing the movement of people injured in accidents that might involve the neck/spine is important. If I had not been to two first responder classes I doubt I would have a clue about how important this can be. And that was what I was attempting to do with my misworded sentence. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I have seen people at accidents doing dangerous things both for their own safety as well as the injured. The idea of a man turning his head and loosing the use of his arms/legs is rather haunting....

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[Jag]

Richard, you did great..... You were calm and tried to keep the the man from moving. You did all you could to keep the man calm. It does no good to second guess this kind of thing. You do the best you can at that time, and learn from it. No one else was there and saw exactly what you saw, and had to make the decisions in those few seconds.

 

[RPM]

Richard,

I think you did great. The (limited) training I have received can be summarized as:

1. Stay calm

2. Call for help

3. Manage remaining risk

In a traffic accident, the #3 includes keeping victims still, controlling traffic and keeping people from freaking out if you can.

Take care of yourself - if you start feeling depressed about it or repeatedly question your actions over the next few weeks then it may help to go and talk to someone. The shock of seeing the injuries and the random nature of an accident like this can dramatically raise a person's anxiety levels.

All the best,

Patrick

 

[RAllen]

Richard

First, thankyou for your assistance. You did good! I've seen many folks with good intentions turn away from someone with the level of trama you described. I have some experience with such things and I think the best course of action depends on the situation. You don't have to lie but you don't have to go into details either. One strategy is to focus on one of the less serious injuries. In your case, I might tell the father the son didn't appear too bad and not to move cause his leg may be broken. You can kill a trama victim by even your reaction. Staying calm but insistant may have save a life. Telling anyone they have lost a limb can put them into deep shock. Using words like may and might or possibly can go along way in calming the victim.

Again, thanks

Rick