Telling it like it is............
- Thread starter cwave
- Start date
- Views: 737
wroughtn_harv
Super Member
Hmmmmmmmmm, interesting concept.
I have to wonder if there was a way it could be certified, bonified, and of course clarified before it put out side.
There are a lot of people doing work that is substandard and they should be identified. That is a fact and a reasonable response.
But there are folks out there who got exactly what they paid for and should accept some responsibility for a crappy job done with substandard materials. They went with a jackleg to save some money. They took their chances and they are the one who gambled and lost.
The really sad thing about this is sometimes the attitude of the customer reflects the sales skill of the contractor. Many has been the time I've looked at an installation that worked better than ExLax on my system for a clean out. Only to have the customer rave about their contractor and how good a job he had done for them.
I've also inspected work that was done according to accepted standards, not exceptional, but acceptable, especially if it was done at a discount. Only to have the customer complain about the work and the contractor.
I think the fair thing to do with those signs of discontent would be to have them certified by peers. If the work was substandard then the sign stays and bears a stamp confirming it. If the work meets minimum standards and the conflict is about personality or misunderstanding then the sign should either have a disclaimer or be considered libelous.
One of the things I've learned over the years is the customer's conception of the contractor sometimes has no basis in reality. In fact there have been times when I've been talking with a customer about doing a job when they've pointed out that so and so was wanting to do it this way. But they knew there was no way I'd do it that way. In my own mind that was the way I was considering about how to do the job. I changed my mind and with the customer's help I was lifting my own standards to a new high. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have to wonder if there was a way it could be certified, bonified, and of course clarified before it put out side.
There are a lot of people doing work that is substandard and they should be identified. That is a fact and a reasonable response.
But there are folks out there who got exactly what they paid for and should accept some responsibility for a crappy job done with substandard materials. They went with a jackleg to save some money. They took their chances and they are the one who gambled and lost.
The really sad thing about this is sometimes the attitude of the customer reflects the sales skill of the contractor. Many has been the time I've looked at an installation that worked better than ExLax on my system for a clean out. Only to have the customer rave about their contractor and how good a job he had done for them.
I've also inspected work that was done according to accepted standards, not exceptional, but acceptable, especially if it was done at a discount. Only to have the customer complain about the work and the contractor.
I think the fair thing to do with those signs of discontent would be to have them certified by peers. If the work was substandard then the sign stays and bears a stamp confirming it. If the work meets minimum standards and the conflict is about personality or misunderstanding then the sign should either have a disclaimer or be considered libelous.
One of the things I've learned over the years is the customer's conception of the contractor sometimes has no basis in reality. In fact there have been times when I've been talking with a customer about doing a job when they've pointed out that so and so was wanting to do it this way. But they knew there was no way I'd do it that way. In my own mind that was the way I was considering about how to do the job. I changed my mind and with the customer's help I was lifting my own standards to a new high. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
Had one around here a couple years ago, next to a blacktop driveway that read "Crumbles & Cracks by Cr*$t". A lot of people who know the contractor took amusement with the sign, but it didn't hurt the contractor's business one bit.
Like Harv says, many people dig their own grave when hiring a contractor.
I can't count the number of times I've been requested to "bid on a job", where the customer wants me to develope the specs for the job, and then trys to compare my specs to another guys without any knowledge of what is involved. I've even had a government agency take my specs for a job, mark out my name with a magic marker, and circulate copies of the spec as an RFQ. That little incident caused me to include an ownership of secification clause in mine. While it's nice to know you wrote specs good enough to be the bidding standard, and the customer didn't need to pay an engineer to do that part of the job; There are a lot of hours involved in developing a spec for a job, and my hours don't become your property unless you pay for them. Amazingly, I get a lt less requests to "bid" on jobs since then.
Like Harv says, many people dig their own grave when hiring a contractor.
I can't count the number of times I've been requested to "bid on a job", where the customer wants me to develope the specs for the job, and then trys to compare my specs to another guys without any knowledge of what is involved. I've even had a government agency take my specs for a job, mark out my name with a magic marker, and circulate copies of the spec as an RFQ. That little incident caused me to include an ownership of secification clause in mine. While it's nice to know you wrote specs good enough to be the bidding standard, and the customer didn't need to pay an engineer to do that part of the job; There are a lot of hours involved in developing a spec for a job, and my hours don't become your property unless you pay for them. Amazingly, I get a lt less requests to "bid" on jobs since then.
JimMc
Platinum Member
We had a guy in town paint lemons all over his truck because the local dealer wouldn't fix a problem the way he wanted them to. He finally traded that truck in on a new one, lemon paint job and all - after driving it to work every day for 8 years.
Gary_in_Indiana
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2002
- Messages
- 3,373
- Location
- Fort Wayne, IN
- Tractor
- John Deere 4200 MFWD HST w/ JD 420 FEL w/ 61" loader bucket & toothbar & JD 37 BH w/ 12" bucket
Franz,
Back when I was running the truck department for a Chevrolet megastore we used to love having our specs used as the bid specs. It gave us an incredible advantage. If our HD alternator was 63 amps and we spec'ed a "minimum 63 amp alternator" we might push someone else into using a custom, aftermarket alternator just because their HD alternator was 60 amps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Back when I was running the truck department for a Chevrolet megastore we used to love having our specs used as the bid specs. It gave us an incredible advantage. If our HD alternator was 63 amps and we spec'ed a "minimum 63 amp alternator" we might push someone else into using a custom, aftermarket alternator just because their HD alternator was 60 amps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
Gary, one of the things that really irritated me was I had meticulously included 3 seperate conditions I was the only guy in town capable of meeting, and the county purchasing agent blacked each one of them out, and then used my specs as the official RFQ. The lazy sumbixh didn't even retype it, he just magic markered over my name and photocopied.
I've taken my share of jobs by writing specs, and I'm known as the guy who puts in a 30 page bid when the competition comes in with a NEBS form.
The justice comes from the fact that the job they stold my specs for has been replaced 3 times, and still doesn't perform as well as what I speced would have.
Unfortunately, in my business we rarely have exclusive product to spec, such as a 63 amp alternator.
On the good side, as you get older you gain reputation, and the clowns stop trying to get over on you. I've offered many times to develope the spec and stay out of the bidding, and have yet to see my offer accepted. I still fail to see the benefit of paying an archetect a percentage of the project, and getting screwed on the job rather than paying a man who knows that facet of the job to develope the spec.
I've taken my share of jobs by writing specs, and I'm known as the guy who puts in a 30 page bid when the competition comes in with a NEBS form.
The justice comes from the fact that the job they stold my specs for has been replaced 3 times, and still doesn't perform as well as what I speced would have.
Unfortunately, in my business we rarely have exclusive product to spec, such as a 63 amp alternator.
On the good side, as you get older you gain reputation, and the clowns stop trying to get over on you. I've offered many times to develope the spec and stay out of the bidding, and have yet to see my offer accepted. I still fail to see the benefit of paying an archetect a percentage of the project, and getting screwed on the job rather than paying a man who knows that facet of the job to develope the spec.
jhburke
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2001
- Messages
- 311
- Location
- Vermilion County, IL
- Tractor
- 2000 B7500HSD Kubota, 2 Case ingersol 448 tractors
My dad started a truck and trailer repair shop. When I went to work for him, he always said not to patch a job. He said when he used to do that, he would see the patch job 6 months later. When the patch job finally give up the customer always complained about the quality of work. We had people go away mad because we wouldn't patch. He said he seldom had a customer admit to wanting only a patch job. Dad would rather have a customer mad because he wouldn'd patch than have one who was bad mouthing him about the quality of his work.
jhburke
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2001
- Messages
- 311
- Location
- Vermilion County, IL
- Tractor
- 2000 B7500HSD Kubota, 2 Case ingersol 448 tractors
I was sales and parts mgr for my company. I learned the hard way /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif about how crappy some people will be. I would have customers come in and have me identify a part and then they went to there lazy buddy and get the part. Only a few did this and once I knew what they were doing. I still would indentify the part but when I wrote the part number down for them I somehow transposed a couple numbers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif When their buddy used the number to get the needed part somehow he ended up with a wrong part that he got stuck with a restock fee and double frt. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif It ended a lot of those situations.
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
Franz,
there are some situations that by design destroy a good engineering plan. I've just spent a year or just over a year chairing a bldg committee specing two bldgs for a small municipality. Knew up front what the needs were and I felt we had it pretty much zeroed in on.Interviewed 5 engineering firms, picked one. that one, at the last minute couldn't bond, called Boston, and the state Att Gnr office (big mistake) only to be told must take second highest bidder. Refused her as she has a file record of wrong doings, OSHA problems EPA on and on. Had to start all over again, now costing the town an additional 40K. What I am trying to say is that states and their screwy laws preempt good designers, and force the bad ones which ultimately add costs that could be avoided. I am still waiting for the Atty Gnr office to come after me with a warrant, only because I accused that particular lawer in the Atty office of gearing Boston Big Dig million dollar a minute rules to this town trying for two simple "Butler" buildings which by now would have been up and running for 400,000..
there are some situations that by design destroy a good engineering plan. I've just spent a year or just over a year chairing a bldg committee specing two bldgs for a small municipality. Knew up front what the needs were and I felt we had it pretty much zeroed in on.Interviewed 5 engineering firms, picked one. that one, at the last minute couldn't bond, called Boston, and the state Att Gnr office (big mistake) only to be told must take second highest bidder. Refused her as she has a file record of wrong doings, OSHA problems EPA on and on. Had to start all over again, now costing the town an additional 40K. What I am trying to say is that states and their screwy laws preempt good designers, and force the bad ones which ultimately add costs that could be avoided. I am still waiting for the Atty Gnr office to come after me with a warrant, only because I accused that particular lawer in the Atty office of gearing Boston Big Dig million dollar a minute rules to this town trying for two simple "Butler" buildings which by now would have been up and running for 400,000..
Taylortractornut
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2002
- Messages
- 2,768
- Location
- Iuka Mississippi USA
- Tractor
- 3550 Fard Backhoe and a 1948 Farmall Cub,
Before i happened Mom and dad rfan a backhoe service and a store. Dad had goten a new Ford 1 ton in '77 a New thunderbird for mom about 2 months after she got the car the vynl top statred tearing he took it bak to the dealer and they primed the bare metal under it to keep it from rusting and told them to deal with it. Mom said dad fle mad and hooked to the arrow sign a wrote this is the waranyt work the Ford place did on this new car. and put it near the the higway in fron of the ford dealer. My oder brother said that the folks on the lot at the dealers ship started looking and leaving. THey tried to have it towed but then dad put it next to the interstate and they fixed it and gave himn a great deal on the next 1 ton he bought.
I get 25 an hour for welding out of the shop and take my time and do a job right but i got to where i charge 40 an hour if they get my price then get a patch job from a buddy then it beaks and i have to fix it. A couple came by here the otherday with a new Ford 4 door dually and a nice big horse trailer wanting me we fix an atv trail mower and complained about the estimated price of 25 dollars to weld it up. they took it to a frein who tried to weld it and looked like he assaulted it with a hatchet when it was done they came back a week later with it broken they had me fix it right this time and theyve had no complaints and i get all there work now. It comes back to ya.
I get 25 an hour for welding out of the shop and take my time and do a job right but i got to where i charge 40 an hour if they get my price then get a patch job from a buddy then it beaks and i have to fix it. A couple came by here the otherday with a new Ford 4 door dually and a nice big horse trailer wanting me we fix an atv trail mower and complained about the estimated price of 25 dollars to weld it up. they took it to a frein who tried to weld it and looked like he assaulted it with a hatchet when it was done they came back a week later with it broken they had me fix it right this time and theyve had no complaints and i get all there work now. It comes back to ya.