Test driving new tractors?

[crazylare1]

Hey there Mike, I've read alot of your threads and comments on lots of other posts, in one of them you stated that you tried to get the dealer that you bought your tractor from to come to your place to look at your property to help you decide which tractor to purchase. You also stated that the only experiance that you had on tractors was with a small simplicity (I think), after reading several other peoples posts and the answers that they received about how to go about finding the right tractor for their purchase I decided that maybe I would answer one from dateacha and try to help him with answers that I had to find out for myself. I didn't mean to ruffle the feathers of long time members of this forum! I know the rules about brand wars and bashing the other brands, but this is the JohnDeere forum, and if someone that owns another brand doesn't want to read about the reasons that I choose to purchase a JD then they should stay off the JD forum. I feel that when someone who knows nothing about tractors, machinery etc. is looking for honest answers to honest questions they should be able to do so with out the sugar coating put on by people who are afraid to say why they choose this one over that one. Most of the answers that I've seen are "well you should buy one from a good dealership", "you should buy one that has the lower price", " you should buy the one that meets your needs" etc. My question is: If you don't know anything about what your needs are and you know nothing about tractors then how the heck are you going to expect a dealer to know what to sell to you? Further on that: how would you expect to make a decision on the brand of tractor not knowing much about them, just by reading the sales brochures and looking at them? A dealer can only answer questions that you know how to ask and offer advice on the questions that you don't ask, and also they try to tell you all of the selling points on their brands that they sell. You then have to go to other brands and ask them all of the same stuff and get all of the same answers that they give you, and more of the selling points. A person with enough patience can put all of this together and come up with a decision that may help him make that purchase only to find out later after using one of his friend or neighbors tractors that he missed the boat on his. So Mike let me ask you if you owned the JD dealership and someone came in that has alot of experiance with equipment, knew what he wanted, and was just trying to decide which brand to purchase, would you indead send him packing to the other brand? If so I'm afraid that you wouldn't be in business long. I went to the JD dealership this morning and looked at my new tractor that came in yesterday and talked to one of the other salesmen (the one I purchased it from was off today) and asked him about the comments that I read this morning. He told me that NO THEY DON'T LIKE TO DEMO EQUIPMENT! and he stated the same reasons that all of you have pointed out. I asked him why they let me demo one, he told me because 1. they do let buyers demo equipment that they feel will show the equipment respect, 2. a buyer with lots of experiance opperating equipment, 3. a person that they feel they can trust. 4. With a person that they don't know about or can't read they will do a demo in person at that persons property, but will let them demo the equipment just the same. He gave me alot of reasons that demo's are necessary but I won't go into all of that. My point Mike is I can't for any reason understand why anyone would purchase a $28,000 dollar piece of equipment without knowing whether or not they like it. Do you go out and buy a new car or pickup without test driveing it? probably not. So the big thing is the scratches on the bucket? Possible breakage of the tractor? etc. Well any salesman for anything whether it be cars, motorcycles, quads, tractors, etc. isn't going to turn a 16yr old loose on a test drive without supervision, they use their head and common sense when letting someone demo anything. I'm sure that if I was a dealer and someone came through the door and looked at a new tractor and didn't have a clue I wouldn't hand him (or her) the keys and tell them go to it, no one would, but if someone came through the door knowing what they wanted, had lots of experiance running the equipment that I was selling and after talking to them I felt that they were trustworthy I then would offer to let them test drive and possibally use it outback at my dirt pile. If the person seemed to have the right stuff up stairs and then was really really interested in a demo I would then work out some way to make it happen. Now as for me, I'm a retired mechanic at a smaller city DPW in the middle of Michigan, I've worked with and on so many types and sizes of equipment that I've forgot more than I can remember. When I shop for anything motorized I do my homework, and leg work, I don't test drive anything just for kicks. When I get close to knowing which brand I'm going to buy I go back to those dealers and ask more questions, and then drive the unit around the lot, after I've done all of that, I research more online by finding out reasale values down the road, the prices things acually sell for not the asking price. After I've done that I then narrow down my search to the final 2 units that I feel are the best. Then I talk to those dealers and tell them my thoughts, I then ask to demo the units. I don't just walk into a dealer and ask to demo their units. Both dealers in my shootout knew that they only had a 50/50 chance to sell me a tractor. They both were told up front that I would be having a couple of friends over, the friends by the way wouldn't have been invited over if I felt they were laimbrains and would do any damage to the equipment that I was resonsible for. Both the deere salesman and the case salesman were able to use both machines for a few minutes if they wanted, to further their knowledge about the other product. As far as scratching up the buckets, and backblade, we only used the equipment in soft soil free of rocks and gravel, the back blade was off of my old tractor, no problem there. We did not use the tractors near anything that would scratch them or do any damage to them in anyway. It was a very controled test in a controled enviroment. I asked them up front how many hours could we use the equipment for and made sure we stayed under that. After the test and my mind was made up as to which tractor to purchase had been made is when I asked the deere salesman if he would object to letting the case salesman demo the deere (JD didn't want to try out the case) the salesman told me that it would be fine. I did this because I felt in all fairness to case that I should provide them with a reason for choosing the deere. The case salesman by the way was the son of a friend of mine that I went to school with from K to 12, and church with until I was 18yrs old. that goes way back to right after we were born, so yes I really wanted to purchase a case from my friends son which is why I wanted him to demo the deere. He was very understanding after doing alittle work with both machines and even sent me an email thanking me for the oppertunity to let them demo the unit and offered to be of any help in the future on things I may need from the dealership. Well Mike I Hope that you now understand the why's and how's of the demo thing works. It all depends on the dealers feeling about a potential buyer. Human nature I guess. I'm not on this forum to be a tractor god, I was just on here to try to help people with questions that I know the answers to. I feel that after all of the research that I've done I might just maybe be able to help, not start a brand war or knock another brand of tractor. I will be honest about my personal reasons for recommending one brand or another, I will not sugar coat the results of the demo, If this makes some people mad at me so be it, but I'm sure that others will value my info. I hope that I haven't offended you in anyway, I value your comments and to some amount your love of your new deere made me want one even more, those pictures of your tractor were like candy to a child, mmmmmm. I'll sign off to you now and go on to the others. Have a great thankgiving! enjoy your great looking tractor! and most of all be safe! larry

 

[crazylare1]

Dear beenthere, just thought I'd let you know that I'm sure that if you did a demo on 3 tractors and then purchased the one that you did, you must have good reasons for doing so. I thought that the purpose of this forum was to help people help themselves when it comes down to it. You said that you didn't give the results of your own tractor shootout because you didn't want to bash the other brands or make negative comments about them. Why? If you felt that the hydrolics on the blue one were less than favorable compared to the red one, and the purple one didn't turn as tight as the black one, etc. don't you think that your valuable info on this is something that a person who is new to this tractor thing might like to know? I wouldn't consider that telling people the truth about the pros or cons about one brand over another would be anything less than honest. When I purchase something I really appr. it when someone I know tells me about faults that his(or her's) has and why they wouldn't purchase one like that again. Very helpful because I might just buy something because I like the color better or I'm nuts about the name, and find out later that the one I spent my hard earned money on just doesn't stack up to a different one that I overlooked do to $ or color. I hope that we get to hear about your experiance with the demo that you done and the reasons that you purchased your's. About the hours put on the one I didn't buy, I asked each dealer how much time I could put on their machine before I even started them. I didn't even use them for the max. amount do to being courteous. I was up front with them and honest, most of all I wasn't just doing it to have fun (even though it was) I was ready to purchase! I did purchase that monday after the weekend demo. I wouldn't even let a dealship start up one of their tractors that I looked at if I wasn't really interested in it. In all I had 4 dealerships offer to bring a tractor to my place to demo with out ever asking them about it. The 2 that I did demo from I had to ask them for a demo. I wasn't interested in buying from the other dealers for my own reasons, of which I won't say other than distance being one reason. So anyhow beenthere (don't know your name) I really don't want to offend you or do anything disrespectful of the other brands of tractors or anything like that I just want to let you know how I feel about this. Thank you for reading this, your comments are very welcome! and again to you: Have a great turkey day! Hope to hear from you again! lar

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Here are my two cents.
1) Happy that he bought <font color="green"> GREEN </font><font color="black"> </font> /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
2)Yes, I'd be mad if you bashed my color
3)Very well written.
4)I've heard of dealers with "rental" machines that will do this and apply any rent money toward purchase. But not this for a compact sale. Your dealer must really trust you as you said.
5)Keep posting. Things have gotten almost stale around here. We need a little "pot stirring" here and there. I've noticed many newcomers to the site buying all types. Many are green and some are waiting patiently to be. Glad to have some new angles.
6)When you get over 100 hours, you'll be able to give a much more in depth report for sure...

-K

 

[crazylare1]

Hi there dateacha, Just thought that I'd let you know that I really appr. the fact that you stood up for me! I want you to know that as I've said in your post I was always a Ford tractor man, and for me to purchase the enemy John Deere I had to be convinced that JD was the better choice for me. I really liked the blue New Hollands but I have my reasons for ruling out the dealer that is close to me, and since they also own the dealership that is the next closest to me...... let's put it this way I would have had to drive a really long distance for parts, service etc. had I purchased a New Holland. By the way they offered to let me demo one of their units, I didn't ask them to. Since I had ruled them out I felt it unfair to them to demo a unit. And now my reasons for purchasing a Deere. 1. the hydrostatic drive on the deere was by far quieter, less jerky, and had a much faster ground speed in reverse. 2. the deere was used in b range which to someone who doesn't understand, that means that there is 3 gear ranges on the deere and we used the mid range, with the case we had to shift from low range to use the bucket to high range to transport the dirt in the bucket to the pile, this meant that we were constantly shifting do to the fact that even at 2600 rpms it wouldn't dig dirt in high range with out alot of feathering the bucket and sometimes stalling the engine. The deere was run at 1500 rpm most of the time and with the load match system on, the deere didn't stall out and it had very good ground speed backing up and going forward to the pile, the case by the way only had 2 ranges on it's tractor. 3. We found that if you use the tractor in a place where getting off and on alot is required the JD with it's one hand car like parking brake, we could reach down set the brake jump off do what we had to do and get back on push the button and go, the JD didn't require us to put the trans. range shifter in neutral before getting off, with the Case you have to mash the brake peddles down, reach down grab a lever pull it up (and hope you did it right), and then place the range shifter in neutral before getting off. 4. with the deere you get onboard diagnostics that means that if you have a problem with your tractor the dealer just hooks up an onboard diagnostic machine and it tells the dealer a whole bunch of stuff about how the tractor has been run and when it was messing up, the rpm, load on the engine, and the gear that it was in etc. this was not on the Case. 5. the deere has a really nice option that you can use with the push of a button they explained it to me real quick but if I got it right it sets the tractor hydrostatic trans in certain modes that can custom tailor it for the work you are doing, it makes the hydro peddles more sensitive or less sensitive to the touch. 6. the deere used less fuel but that's not rocket science as it was able to run at less rpm to do exactly the same work as the case. 7. the case had a seat that swivels to the side a little so that you can see the rear of the tractor better deere doesn't have that, but the case has it's fuel tank behind you so that you can't see the 3pt. as easy even with the seat swiveled. 8. the deere has a weight adjustable seat, not found on the case we used. 9. the deere has it's fuel tank on the back of where the hood meets the instrument panel, case put theirs in the back...advantage on that one goes to case! I can only imagine how much fuel I'll spill on that instrument panel from my 6gal. fuel can...yuck! 10. the deere being a smaller tractor than the dx35 would be able to go into tighter places like the trails in my woods used by the dirt bikes and quads 11. the case had tail lights, the deere didn't....advantage on that one goes to case. 12. the case comes from the factory with skidsteer style quick attach front loader system...the deere uses it's own design for that and you have to have only deere attachments that were made to fit it. advantage case on that one...if you need some attachment for the frt. end loader and you can't afford to buy one, you can go to most any rental shops and rent one easily. 13. in the future when I go to purchase new tires I'm pretty sure that the smaller tires on the deere will be less expensive...advantage...? 14. opperating the deere was so easy and fun that I think I would look forward to finding something to do with it just to be using it, unfortunatly the case required us to be constantly working the range lever, and being careful not to stall it. advantage deere on that one, I think that I wouldn't want to be in the seat of the case much more than I had to after the initial new toy thing wore off. 15. on the case if you set the cruise control, it was on until you turned off the switch period! on the deere a quick tap of the brakes, flip off the switch, or tap the hydro peddle the opposite direction, no I don't mean push the darn thing down and blow something apart, just tap it. I heard about the salesman who accidently bumped the switch to the on position and loaded the tractor on the trailer and then on to the back of the pickup before he could reach over and turn it off this bit of info came from one of the case dealers that I had talked to. 16. the loader on the deere is by far the easiest thing I've ever seen to take off and put on. 17. go to johndeere.com and watch the demo's on the loader and the demo on the pulling power of the deere with the load match system, it will just amaze you. Well at this point I can't think of anything else, if I do I'll post it later. I hope that this info helps you out while shopping for a tractor and by the way as I've said before this is only my opinion everyone likes a different tractor for his or her own reasons, I'm not here to down grade any other brand of tractor, and yes if I would have bought the case instead of the deere I would have gotten used to it and it probably would have lasted me a life time just like I hope that the deere will. My reason for buying the tractor that I bought was made because I believe that the deere was the easiest to learn how to opperate for my buddy that can't seem to opperate anything but the skidder that he uses on his job skidding trees everyday, my neighbor who works as a landscaper everyday and said that he is going to talk to the owner about deere in the future purchases (he's the foreman on the job for this company), my other neighbor who has had several tractors, two of them orange, and thought the deere was the best tractor he's ever ran. and myself the wanna be landscaper who felt instantly at home on the deere. thanks for reading this long thread.....about a mile or so. have a great holiday season and let me know what you end up buying.....see ya. lar

 

[BloomingtonMike]

Lar, you have a great gig going. Maybe I just read in your original post that we should all expect to get to perform tests on our property. My mistake. I think in my area it may be pretty rare for that to happen (midwest IL even). Even buying a new motorcycle I was not able to test drive until I signed and then I had 8 miles and I live 10 miles to home - If I drove it home it was mine. Insurance kills these deals most times.

I did post that I was very unsure of exactly my needs. I still think most of my guesswork was also done by reading, lot sizing, and the tbn forum. I feel I made a good decision. I could have gotten along with a 2210 most likely. I still am glad I bought a 3320. Especially now with the snow plow on the loader. I do not profess to knowing alot. I just gave another perspective. I sometimes feel too much tbn can skew perspectives - I almost expected 20% off my tractor after reading this board so much - it just was not going to happen locally with my lack of dealer relationship - not in a Deere anyway.

I am glad you bought Green - I am a huge fan of them. I did not buy JD because it is green but because it had what I wanted. I, in a way, performed my own shootout, just with the dealers lot being the test park. It was all in the feel.

I sincerely trust peoples experiences on tbn and am very glad I found this board.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Good post. You should have been a technical data author...

Every brand has features that may shine over others. Sometimes, the whole is greater than the sum of all the parts.

I remember reading a post by Bob Skurka (Bob are you out there?)that surprised me. He had finally gotten an opportunity to drive a JD4310 (I think) and had written a very favorable review of it. Up until this time I had mostly thought that he didn't think well of green and usually did not write much about them. He basically stated that it had great ergonomics and really liked the machine. Upon reading this, my respect for his opinions went up knowing that he had openly stated what he had. I really respect the opinions of those who have a lot of experience on different brands and write about both the pro's and con's of each. I'm sure Deere does something like this at their testing grounds in Georgia.

I still think there could be a "Tractor Olympics" with a group of us having a good time comparing other's machines with FUN as the main course.

 

[HobbleCreek]

Wow! I think it would be great if every TBN member who buys a new tractor left a post like that. So helpful.

As many people have pointed out, different people buy different colors for different reasons. Hopefully, the next guy that buys a Case will post all the things he liked about that tractor so that future users (particularly those like me who can't pull off the shootout like Lar did) will at least be able to cyber compare them.

Thanks a ton!

-- Grant