The Great Remote Detent Debate

[finspop]

Here's my little tale of woe: I was haying with a friend, with me running his big Deere (mowing) and him running my DK40se (tedding). He's an older fellow, and is getting a little skittish about operating his big, old Deere, which is why we switched tractors. We were working opposite ends of a 25-acre field. At some point, I caught a glimpse of him in the distance and noticed what looked like smoke coming out the underside of my DK. So a motored on over, to find that he'd managed to knock the remote lever into the detent position and deadhead the pump. I think he didn't notice because he wasn't familiar with the tractor and I neglected to point out the perils of letting that valve get stuck in the detent position. Also, he's a smoker, so I suspect he hardly noticed the smell.

In any event, the pump was smokin' hot. I have no idea how long it was deadheaded for, but this was about 20 hrs of run time ago and everything seems to be working just fine. And yes, I am going to set up the remote loop as discussed in other threads.

My friend feels terrible and has offered to pay for a new pump. But he doesn't have any money (nor do I, really), and he is a friend, and it was an honest - if potentially costly - mistake. And it is, for the time being, still perfectly operational. We have a history of sharing equipment and my general view is that sharing with friends is more important than a tractor, any day of the week. I know some of you may not agree with this perspective, and I understand that position.

I guess my question is: What are the chances that this pump has suffered damage that will ultimately shorten its life? I suspect pretty good, but wondering what others think.

Also, should I change my hydraulic fluid after this, um, experience?

And I have to agree with some of the comments on another thread relating to the detent feature: It might be a convenient feature, but it should be much more clear that misuse can lead to expensive repair bills.

Anyway, thanks for any advice relating to potential long term damage to the pump and fluid.

 

[murphy1244]

Change fluid and both filters and get a hose loop to connect your remotes so this can't happen again.

 

[oldnslo]

Doesn't Kioti have hydraulic release on their detents like JD, IH, etc. Only detent that doesn't hydraulically release is the float position.

Does the oil look or smell burnt? If it doesn't look or smell burnt you should be fine.

Depending on how hot the oil got you could have shortened the life on your pump and components. Temperatures over 180 - 200 degrees F will start to damage seals and the oil.

Roy

 

[RandyT]

No auto detent release back to center. Stays in detent until manually returned. No float position either, which about eliminates using one way cylinders. Most people either use a hose loop to prevent dead head, or remove the detent balls from the valve. The second set of optional couplers doesn't have a detent, but the first set that comes standard with the tractor does.

 

[finspop]

No, there's no release when it's in the detent position... this was debated/explained here.

The oil looks and smells fine, but there was enough heat to create some smoke (oil? paint?) and create minor seepage in one of the lines (power steering, I believe, although I need to do some disassembly to investigate more thoroughly). It stopped seeping when things cooled down, and currently nothing is dripping or otherwise showing signs of being stressed.

Like I said, it's all working as new, but I've only put another 20 or so hours on it since.

I do think this is somewhat poor engineering on Kioti's part. I'm an experienced tractor operator, and so is my friend, but in the heat of the moment - especially when you're doing something like haying, which can really consume all your attention - sh*t, as they say, happens. I think it should be much, much harder to leave the valve in the detent position. Or, there should be some sort of warning on the valve control itself. Unfortunately, I bought my machine used, so I had no dealer to warn me about the situation, or suggest the remote loop.

Anyway. This all was debated pretty thoroughly at the link above, so I don't mean to rehash it. I'm mostly looking for insight into what sort of long term damage I might have done and whether or not I should be concerned.

Thanks!

 

[k0ua]

No, there's no release when it's in the detent position... this was debated/explained here.

The oil looks and smells fine, but there was enough heat to create some smoke (oil? paint?) and create minor seepage in one of the lines (power steering, I believe, although I need to do some disassembly to investigate more thoroughly). It stopped seeping when things cooled down, and currently nothing is dripping or otherwise showing signs of being stressed.

Like I said, it's all working as new, but I've only put another 20 or so hours on it since.

I do think this is somewhat poor engineering on Kioti's part. I'm an experienced tractor operator, and so is my friend, but in the heat of the moment - especially when you're doing something like haying, which can really consume all your attention - sh*t, as they say, happens. I think it should be much, much harder to leave the valve in the detent position. Or, there should be some sort of warning on the valve control itself. Unfortunately, I bought my machine used, so I had no dealer to warn me about the situation, or suggest the remote loop.

Anyway. This all was debated pretty thoroughly at the link above, so I don't mean to rehash it. I'm mostly looking for insight into what sort of long term damage I might have done and whether or not I should be concerned.

Thanks!


Unfortunately, I bought my machine used, so I had no dealer to warn me about the situation, or suggest the remote loop.

My Dealer highly suggested they be removed. I told him to go ahead, as I knew about this problem, (From TBN) and figured if I ever wanted to run something stationary like a log splitter, that is why they invented bungie cords. It does caution about this in the manual pretty strongly.

James K0UA

 

[finspop]

Yes, you're right, it does warn in the manual. Unfortunately, I didn't make my buddy read the manual before operating

How does one go about removing the detents? Is it fairly simple?

Any other thoughts regarding the long term ramifications of this little "experiment"?

 

[k0ua]

Yes, you're right, it does warn in the manual. Unfortunately, I didn't make my buddy read the manual before operating

How does one go about removing the detents? Is it fairly simple?

Any other thoughts regarding the long term ramifications of this little "experiment"?

I don't know how to do it.. but I have the "nuts" in a bag, delivered by the dealer, I think there are a few guys on here that do know how, but I am thinking if you put the loop hose in, why bother? Unless you pull it out and forget to put it back in. or something? My dealer's rep said they have seen a few burned up pumps, so insisted in removing them unless I pitched a fit, and agreed to not warranty the pump. I don't know what the long term is.. the fact that you have went 20 hours without problem is good. So no melted seals yet. But seeing visible smoke ,, well that is never good. Maybe CoyoteMachine or Motor7 can chime in with the removal procedure.

James K0UA

 

[finspop]

yeah, I'm with ya. Visible smoke = no good, unless you're sitting 'round a camp fire with a cold beer.

 

[IndyIan]

Is your tractor an HST model? If so, I think I would change the hyd fluid just for piece of mind. Also I guess you could call one of the oil analysis places and ask if they can detect a hyd pump close to failure? I suppose you could use an analysis to see if you need to change the fluid at all too.
Thanks though for the post, I keep thinking I should get a loop for that remote and then put it off... Tonight I'll figure out what type of connectors I need and get a hose tommorow!