The start of many questions

[wedge40]

I'll start with a basic question.

I'm in the process of adding a Pump on the front of my tractor. (~50HP).
I'm using a gear pump and my question is how much extra torque will be required when I go to start the tractor? From my understanding a gear pump will start moving fluid as soon as the tractor starts to turn over, but a vane pump will not move any fluid until a certain RPM is reached.

Next will come a question about how to hook all this up.
But that another thread.

TIA.
Wedge

 

[Wayne County Hose]

There are so many variables to this equation, but, I don't think that the power draw would be very noticable in almost any case.

 

[wedge40]

There are so many variables to this equation, but, I don't think that the power draw would be very noticable in almost any case.

Variables like what? There is only so much to a hydraulic system.
Pump, valve, hose, pressure setting on the valve. To me these would be the biggies. Anything else that might make a difference would not be enough to notice, only enough to calculate.

Wedge

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Variables like what? There is only so much to a hydraulic system.
Pump, valve, hose, pressure setting on the valve. To me these would be the biggies. Anything else that might make a difference would not be enough to notice, only enough to calculate.

Wedge

I was just saying that the power draw would be not enough to be concerned with, unless it it a mammoth pump. As far as how much extra torque, without knowing pump size and type, gpm rating of the valve, sizes and length of suction and return hoses and many other variables, it it impossible to figure the exact additional torque. But figuring the exact torque added or even a ballpark figure for a 50 hp engine would be a waste of time unless it was a mammoth pump.

 

[BarryinMN]

If you are using an open circuit hyd system starting amperage draw difference would minimal - as long as there is no load being applied - valves are in open state.

I'm using a gear pump and my question is how much extra torque will be required when I go to start the tractor? TIA.
Wedge

 

[shaley]

Remember, the pump won't have any load on it unless you are actuating a valve at the same time you are starting the engine. (not a good practice) It's just moving oil back to the tank.

 

[john_bud]

Most of the old tractors used gear pumps on the front. Often called a "stinger" pump. Never heard of them being a problem with starting.

What flow rate are you looking for?

jb

 

[flusher]

I'll start with a basic question.

I'm in the process of adding a Pump on the front of my tractor. (~50HP).
I'm using a gear pump and my question is how much extra torque will be required when I go to start the tractor? From my understanding a gear pump will start moving fluid as soon as the tractor starts to turn over, but a vane pump will not move any fluid until a certain RPM is reached.

Next will come a question about how to hook all this up.
But that another thread.

TIA.
Wedge

What make of tractor?

The first owner of my 1964 MF-135 diesel (45 hp engine) snapped the crankshaft inside the front main bearing after he installed a front hydraulic pump to run an FEL (the 135 internal hydraulic pump only produces about 5 gpm flow, hence the attempt to used an external pump).

My advice: be careful. Check the tractor specs and talk to a dealer or mechanic who knows what he's talking about before making this modification.

 

[wedge40]

What make of tractor?

The first owner of my 1964 MF-135 diesel (45 hp engine) snapped the crankshaft inside the front main bearing after he installed a front hydraulic pump to run an FEL (the 135 internal hydraulic pump only produces about 5 gpm flow, hence the attempt to used an external pump).

My advice: be careful. Check the tractor specs and talk to a dealer or mechanic who knows what he's talking about before making this modification.

Ok more info about what I'm doing.
Tractor - 1967 Ford 4000 201 engine.
crank shaft pulley has holes already drilled to accept a shaft adapter.
10 gallon reservoir, 1/2" hoses to the valve and I believe 1/4" to the FEL hydraulics.

Pump spec:
EATON/CESSNA GEAR PUMP
EATON Model 26000. Replaces Cessna 26300 Series. Hydraulic gear pump.

* 3000 PSI max
* SAE A 2 bolt mount
* Side ports: IN SAE 16, OUT SAE 10
* Shaft 3/4" dia x 1 1/4" w/keyway
* CCW rotation
* 1.87 cu in displ/rev
* 3000 max RPM
* Rated GPM at 2500 PSI:
* 24.1 @ Max RPM
* 14.6 @ 1800 RPM


Again as BarryinMN said since I have an open system it's was kind of a dumb question anyway. I guess I should have thought about this a little more before asking.
Thanks for the replys.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Again as BarryinMN said since I have an open system it's was kind of a dumb question anyway. I guess I should have thought about this a little more before asking.
Thanks for the replys.

The only dumb question is one not asked.

 

[shaley]

Remember to put some type of flexible coupling between the pump and crank.
That pump rating will require about 45HP at full load so a good pressure relief will be critical.

 

[wedge40]

Remember to put some type of flexible coupling between the pump and crank.
That pump rating will require about 45HP at full load so a good pressure relief will be critical.

I will post how I think I should set things up and hopefully you guys can help me get things right the first time.

I plan on using a gear and chain coupler.

 

[firefighter9208]

My grandfather has a ford 3000 with a ford loader. It is a late 60's early 70's model tractor. The loader has the front mounted pump. He has had the loader on the tractor since the early 80's. I just helped him replace the splined shaft and both ends (That connect to the pump and the crankshaft) a couple weeks ago. He showed me a pile of shafts in his barn that he has replaced over the last 25 years. I know there were 6 or 7 in the pile.

One thing to consider. It now takes several hours to change a fan belt. I know, because I'm usually the one that ends up helping do it. You have to remove the front end of the tractor and the pump. If I were going to put a front mounted pump on a tractor I would go ahead and replace the water pump and all belts while doing this. It will save you several hours of frustration in the future.

Also, the front suspension on the ford tractors of this era were not built as strong as tractors today. If yours has the same front suspension as the 3000 and you plan to do much dirt work, get ready to replace spindles and steering linkages. He also has a pile of broken spindles.

The steering linkages we reinforced with 3/4" steel rod. Looks kind of redneck, but we placed the rod along the length of the linkage and used clamps to hold them in place. The linkages and the rods are bent.

BTW, we did use the tractor to skid logs and load them onto a tandem axle c60 log truck. The tractor has pretty much been abused and still runs fine. Too bad Ford quite making tractors.

Chris