Thermo King / Isuzu motors for generators

[BrokenTrack]

I like the Central Maine Diesel website because they show a lot of information, like fuel consumption. That is good information to know.

I think the Isuzu is a far better engine then the Perkins (Caterpillar) for what little bit my opinion matters.

I have a friend that works on Refer Units as the owner of the company, and he told me outright that he NEVER works on the engines, and that the chillers break long before the engines do, and that is why there are so many of them kicking around. For the most part Thermo King uses Isuzu's, and Carrier uses Kubota's. (That was why it took me so long to figure out that my engine was a Perkins). We went to diesel school together so at 46 years old, he has never worked on 1978 Carrier Reefer Units before.

He said that he has torn down the Isuzu's and they are so worn, that he cannot figure out why they are still a running engine, but even at 55,000-60,000 hours they are still running. They are actually an incredible engine.

I think the size (29 hp), low cost of buying used ones, and their bullet proof nature make the Isuzu Reefer Engine a smart purchase since a person could really use them for a lot of things. It really is nice to know that I can have my friend keep an eye out for a good Isuzu Reefer Unit if one becomes available. That is why I have such an interest in this thread: I think the orginal poster (PMSMechanic) has a really great engine at his disposal.

I am using the Perkins because I have what I have, so why not use it, but the Isuzu is an incredible engine.

 

[pmsmechanic]

So I'll borrow this picture from post #5.

View attachment 650203

The little 3 cylinder Isuzu that I'm working on looks very similar to this one. About a week ago I was trying to get it started and just couldn't get any fuel delivery to the injectors. I'm thinking that the shutoff solenoid isn't moving the rack to allow injection. This engine has sat outside for a while and I'm wondering if the sun has tuned the diesel into varnish and the injectors/injection pump is stuck. It looks like a previous mechanic has been into the engine as there is red silicone on the rack cover where there would normally be a gasket.

This little motor is going to sit on hold for awhile. There's too many other projects on the go right now and there is no rush to get this one going. One more TK to get going and then the owner can decide which one he wants for a generator. He's indicated that he wants one of the TK's and I don't blame him as they have the reputation.

What I like about the little 3 cylinder Isuzu is that I can order a generator that bolts directly to to the engine flywheel and bell housing. It would make for a nice compact unit looking very similar to the one in the picture. The one I'm working on has a fan and a radiator.

I'm still tossing ideas around for the Lister. I'm not sure if it's 7 or 12 hp. I'll find out when the generator is hooked up as I don't feel like pulling a head to find out. The toss up is either direct drive or with a serpentine belt. Direct drive is nice but with a belt I can tuck the generator in right beside the clutch and it makes for a very compact unit. Belt drive also fit's a lot nicer into the corner of my shop.

 

[PILOON]

I'm following closely as I have dibs on a 20KW 'new in box' genny 'head'. And that in the $200. range, so good deal!
Specs however call for 1800 RPM for 60 cycle operation and that is where lies my dilemma.
My tractor can't supply those specs so I'd need a power head but to get 1800 RPM even with diesel some coupling and reduction would be in order.

Another 'ongoing project'.
Meanwhile I have a 1 KW self contained standby coupled to the home with a manual switching panel.
Reefer motors sure look interesting so I'll have to look into that aspect locally.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I'm following closely as I have dibs on a 20KW 'new in box' genny 'head'. And that in the $200. range, so good deal!
Specs however call for 1800 RPM for 60 cycle operation and that is where lies my dilemma.
My tractor can't supply those specs so I'd need a power head but to get 1800 RPM even with diesel some coupling and reduction would be in order.

Another 'ongoing project'.
Meanwhile I have a 1 KW self contained standby coupled to the home with a manual switching panel.
Reefer motors sure look interesting so I'll have to look into that aspect locally.

So here was one of my original plans.

I was going to drive my 7500 watt generator with the pto on my tractor. I have a 23.5" diameter fly wheel from an old baler and I was going to use that to increase rpm's from the pto. Set it up with a belt to run the pto slower than rated speed. I found a serpentine pulley that would work on the generator too. You don't need groves in the flywheel as the belt will grip it just fine the way it is. This is something that would work for you.

Several reasons why I didn't go this way. The biggest was that the Lister only cost me $250. The Lister is governed at 1800 rpm. I can hand crank it to start it. I was also worried about someone (me included) getting absent minded and over speeding the generator and blowing it up. It just made more sense to run the Lister 24/7 than my tractor.

Just keep in mind that as I understand it reefer motors run at 2200 rpm on reefer duty. You can reset the governor for 1800. I was originally going to go for a 20 KW head but decided that the reefer motor was to low on power at 1800 rpm.

I found this PDF for figuring out what poly-v belt works. (Googling poly-v gives better results than serpentine.) It's pretty involved but it looks like you get steered in the right direction. http://www.powerparts.it/contitech_pdf/CONTITECH_multirib.pdf

 

[Industrial Toys]

Curious if a belt can introduce distorsion into the generated AC. It's basically a spring. Springs go into resonance.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I'm following closely as I have dibs on a 20KW 'new in box' genny 'head'. And that in the $200. range, so good deal!
Specs however call for 1800 RPM for 60 cycle operation and that is where lies my dilemma.
My tractor can't supply those specs so I'd need a power head but to get 1800 RPM even with diesel some coupling and reduction would be in order.

Why not just buy a $500 gear pto reducer (you put it on backwards so that it induces speed) like all pto generators have? For $900 ($200 generator head, $500 gear box, and $200 pto shaft) you would have the equivalent of a $2500 generator, that produces clean power.

 

[BrokenTrack]

So here was one of my original plans.

I was going to drive my 7500 watt generator with the pto on my tractor. I have a 23.5" diameter fly wheel from an old baler and I was going to use that to increase rpm's from the pto. Set it up with a belt to run the pto slower than rated speed. I found a serpentine pulley that would work on the generator too. You don't need groves in the flywheel as the belt will grip it just fine the way it is. This is something that would work for you.

Several reasons why I didn't go this way. The biggest was that the Lister only cost me $250. The Lister is governed at 1800 rpm. I can hand crank it to start it. I was also worried about someone (me included) getting absent minded and over speeding the generator and blowing it up. It just made more sense to run the Lister 24/7 than my tractor.

Just keep in mind that as I understand it reefer motors run at 2200 rpm on reefer duty. You can reset the governor for 1800. I was originally going to go for a 20 KW head but decided that the reefer motor was to low on power at 1800 rpm.

I found this PDF for figuring out what poly-v belt works. (Googling poly-v gives better results than serpentine.) It's pretty involved but it looks like you get steered in the right direction. http://www.powerparts.it/contitech_pdf/CONTITECH_multirib.pdf

As long as you stay above 1200 rpm, you will be fine. When you drop below 1200 rpm, the governor does not work as designed, and then when the genset hits sudden heavy loads, it could stall out. It would most likely be in the 700 rpm range or below, that this would happen, but ideally you want to be at 1200 rpm or above.

A reefer engine may develop maximum power at 2200 rpm, but that does not mean it will not operate a genset at 1800 rpm. At less horsepower it just means you will not develop full 20 KW. But does it really matter? The average house at any one time, seldom consumes more than 10-12 KW. A reduction by only 400 rpm is hardly taking the engine down the stall-speed, again you just have to be about 1200 rpm due to the governor. A 29 hp engine is still going to be in the 16 KW range, MORE than enough for most houses. My father has a 14 KW Generac and his house is 5200 sq feet.

Even then, you would NEVER set your genset to a certain rpm based on what a reefer unit was set up for. You set your engine speed to produce the proper hertz (frequency) of 60 cycles, ideally 61 hertz so that if you get a load, it does not drop below 60 hertz. To do this, just disengage the automatic throttle control of the genset, and use a hand-method. I used a c-clamp to adjust, and then hold my throttle for ideal power.

Ideal power is what the grid produces. At my house, it is 60 hertz at 240 volts...

 

[BrokenTrack]

I think we have all been where you are at some point PMS Mechanic... you are part way into a project and wonder, "Do I just stop now, or should I keep going".

I know when I started my genset project, I was overwhelmed too. Do I do the minimum to get this thing running? Do I go all out? Do I leave half the wiring and try and figure it out? It really was overwhelming...wires everywhere, and what ran what, and could I ever make it all work?

In the end, I decided to make everything as simple as I could, strip everything off, and then put back only what I needed too. Now 3/4 of the way through the project, I think that was a very wise choice.

And while I know my project is different than yours, I will say, that at 3/4 of the way through, I also know all this work has netted something else, it far exceeds my orginal expectations. I just wanted a separate engine to run my generator to keep hours off my tractor. Now, it even excels above that of my parents $6000 Generac Generator, with me having about $750 into the project so far. So, for what little bit I have spent, I got a lot in return, and in fact, will have something you cannot even buy...which is back-up power, to the back-up power. Grid/Genset/PTO Generator, all tied together.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Curious if a belt can introduce distortion into the generated AC. It's basically a spring. Springs go into resonance.

I'm going to say that no it doesn't produce distortion. And I'm going to base that on this web site. UtterPower.com - Alternative Energy SolutionsUtterPower.com | Alternative Energy Solutions He sells various belt drive kits and has a whole section on running 6 hp single cylinder Lister's. The 6/1's top out at about 800 rpm and the generator is belted up to 1800 rpm. I've never read anything about engine induced distortion on his web site. Surely if a belt induces distortion then a slow turning single would be the engine that it would show up on.

Good point though. It's something I hadn't thought of.

 

[PILOON]

Why not just buy a $500 gear pto reducer (you put it on backwards so that it induces speed) like all pto generators have? For $900 ($200 generator head, $500 gear box, and $200 pto shaft) you would have the equivalent of a $2500 generator, that produces clean power.

Main problem is my CUT is a mere 20 hp with less at the PTO so tractor driven is out.