Thinnest steel that can be neatly stick welded

[jbwilson]

I will shortly be fabricating some garden gates made of steel square hollow sections that will involve welding a lot of small patterns such as squares within triangles etc. I want the gates to be as light as possible and so will want to use the thinnest sections that can be neatly welded. I will be using a basic stick welder for this job - an od Miller econo twin which has a fairly high ocv for DC and AC welding. As an amateur welder I am reasonably compentent, but certainly not up there with the professionals.

My questions are:

1) What is the thinnest square sections that a professional welder can neatly weld? I can handle 1/16th of an inch about 90% of the time - the remainder ends up with blow holes that are difficult to fill given the thin sections involved. I would like to have a go at something thinner, but want to be guided by your advice as to whether this is possible after a lot of practice.

2) What rod classification is the easiest to use for this task? I generally use E6013 but is there a better electrode in terms of welding ease and neatness?

3) What is the best rod size you use to weld thin sections? I actually find that the 1/8th inch rods are easier to use than the 1/10th for thin sections because it's easier to strike an arc with at low amps. But I am interested in what the experienced welders use.

Thank you.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I think that if you're welding 1/16" metal with decent consistency, you're doing way better than most stick weldors. I don't have a lot of experience welding thin material myself, but I have heard people say that 6010/6011 can be very good for thin material. It's counter-intuitive because it's a deep-penetrating rod, so you would think that you'd burn through all over the place, but because it's fast-freeze, if you use a whip-and-pause motion and keep your travel speed up, I have read that some folks like it better than anything else for thin material. Anyway, food for thought...

 

[dex3361]

I used 1/16 6013 rod welding thin stuff. That was before I got a mig welder. I was welding 1/20 of and inch metal this evening. I would be pulling my hair out trying to weld this with a rod.

 

[rankrank1]

1/16" thick or (16 gauge) is about the practical thinnest limit for stick welding and even that will take some skill to accomplish. I have heard the really really skilled can do 18 gauge but I can not.

As already pointed out some use the fast freeze properties of 6010 or 6011 to successfully weld thin stuff. I am not one of those people who can do it though as I always burn through with 6011.

For me, I would use 5/64" diameter 6013 with the stinger - and work + since you have DC. 6013 is low penetrating rod to start with and the stinger - and work + will result in even less penetration. 6013 burns best on this polarity anyway. Granted there are 1/16" diameter electrodes too, but I hate all 1/16" diameter electrodes except 7014. 1/16" diameter electrodes are like welding with a noodle. 5/64" are thick enough to not flex so much and I really like 5/64" 6013 for thin stuff but not as well as a wire feeder of course. Thin stuff is where a wire feeder shines.

Since you have DC you could add a low cost tig torch for $50 or so (plus you would need an Argon bottle). With scratch start tig you can weld thinner stuff pretty easily.

 

[k0ua]

1/16" thick or (16 gauge) is about the practical thinnest limit for stick welding and even that will take some skill to accomplish. I have heard the really really skilled can do 18 gauge but I can not.

As already pointed out some use the fast freeze properties of 6010 or 6011 to successfully weld thin stuff. I am not one of those people who can do it though as I always burn through with 6011.

For me, I would use 5/64" diameter 6013 with the stinger - and work + since you have DC. 6013 is low penetrating rod to start with and the stinger - and work + will result in even less penetration. 6013 burns best on this polarity anyway. Granted there are 1/16" diameter electrodes too, but I hate all 1/16" diameter electrodes except 7014. 1/16" diameter electrodes are like welding with a noodle. 5/64" are thick enough to not flex so much and I really like 5/64" 6013 for thin stuff but not as well as a wire feeder of course. Thin stuff is where a wire feeder shines.

Since you have DC you could add a low cost tig torch for $50 or so (plus you would need an Argon bottle). With scratch start tig you can weld thinner stuff pretty easily.

What he said with one addition, you can cut the 1/16 6013 rods in half to better control them.. I don't like 1/16 6013 any better than anyone else. In fact, I don't even like 6013. But you can weld some pretty thin stuff with it, but 14 guage stock is about the thinnest I have ever successfully welded. That all said, I would get the argon bottle, and a cheap HTP regulator and a Chinese e-bay 17V torch, and get to TIGing. way more control, and will do way better job with your rig. I have several packages of 1/16 Lincoln 6013, and I doubt I will ever use them. Not since I got my TIG torch going.. it is just not worth the concentration and aggravation when TIG works so well.

James K0UA

 

[Arc weld]

A lot depends on the joint. You don't want any gaps. With a 6010/6011 you can usually turn the amps down pretty low and still strike an arc. You can also put a bunch of tacks without having to worry too much about slag getting in the way.

 

[jbwilson]

Thank you all - most useful. You actually convinced me to go down the TIG route. I actually have a TIG outfit but not the argon gas cylinder. In Australia you have to TIG weld a lot to justify the expense. - the annual rental on the bottle alone is over $200 per year. But I remembered the very neat weld joints achievable with TIG and so hang the expense. It's been several years since I used TIG and so a bit of practice will be required. I hope my TIG equipment including the bottle pressure regulator still works - it's been over 15 years since I last used it. I'll blow out the dust and hope that the thread on the regulator won't fail and fly off the cylinder under 2000lbs of pressure.

 

[DaveOmak]

Buy the Argon bottle.... When I started, I purchased my bottles.... saves a lot in rent...

 

[k0ua]

If you are not going to TIG a lot, you can get by with a 80 cuFt. bottle. You should be able to buy one for well under $200. Good Luck on your TIG journey.

James K0UA

 

[yomax4]

If you are stuck on stick welding the project. Look up MG Easy-Strike rod. 5/64. has a hot start tip on each rod. Works well if you need to stick weld something that thin. There are other processes that would work better. Good Luck.

 

[muddstopper]

I have welded car fenders together with 1/8-7018. It worked better with the 1/16 rods. One thing I have discovered welding sheet metal with stick is you need to make sure your rods are very dry. Wet rods stick and splatter and fluff off. I usually will place my rods ontop of the wood stove over night and let them cook. I have had good luck with this method drying out rain soaked rods, unless the rods are rusty of course. Rusty rods get chunked in the trash. Turn the welder down low and stich weld the piece, letting the metal cool between welds. Then come back and back stich to fill the gaps. As soon as you see the puddle start to drupe, stop and let the metal cool. Its hard to run a complete bead in one pass, but with patience, you can do the thin stuff. I loss patience years ago and bought a mig. I recently bought a tig, but havent played with it as much as i need to to get good at it.

 

[jbwilson]

I am going to re-acquaint myself with TIG although I suspect that it might be a very slow process for garden gates - but it will be good practice. In Australia you cannot buy the bottles outright - you can only lease them at $200 per year. Apparently it's about safety - to regularly check the condition of bottles - and weigh them to ensure they haven't been tampered with (and some might say to gouge the poor customer).

Muddstopper's response about using 1/8th rod over 1/16th for thin steel is interesting. I too have found that 1/8th is easier - better control, less blow holes. Maybe the thinner rods aren't throwing out the weld metal fast enough to spread the heat over the weld joint. I'm not good enough to do car fenders though - at least not with the Japanese cars that are prevalent here.

 

[jwmorris]

When I was a kid, I welded up the holes left in the sheet metal from removing the trim, on the first truck I bought (for $100) with a stick welder.

With a TIG you can (no pun intended) go really thin.

 

[jwmorris]

For something that won't distort, like sheet metal, exhaust tubing for example or anything with "structure", I used Oxy/act and filler. Again, before a TIG.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I weld sixteen gauge metal all the time. If you want to have some real fun weld sixteen gauge galvanized fence tubing like in a gate. I use 5P+ 3/32 when I can. Otherwise I will use 6011.

You can get nice welds but don't expect to consistently get stacked welds like you can on thicker material. Building with sixteen gauge the way you are discussing is done easy and can look really good with a small mig flux core set up.