Comparison Tier IV Questions For Messicks

[jeff9366]

1) Is the demarcation for Tier IV emission controls 25-horsepower or 26-horsepower?

2) Kubota B2601 specs as 68.5 cubic inch displacement / 25.5 horsepower. Does B2601 have Tier IV emission controls, specifically DPF?

3) Kubota B2650 has 77 cubic inch displacement / 26 horsepower. Does B2650 have Tier IV emission controls, specifically DPF?


Thank you for illumination.

jeff9366

 

[NYCheese]

I can answer the first one, The EPA regs go by kW, rather than HP. The magic number is 19kW, which is just slightly under 25.5hp. (24.479).

The others I can't answer.

 

[DieselBound]

[Yes, I'm NOT "Messicks," but] According to this article Tier IV is applicable to engines 25hp and above. Different approaches to meeting emissions requirements are taken by various manufacturers and [may also] differ between the manufacturers engines.

 

[jeff9366]

I can answer the first one, The EPA regs go by kW, rather than HP. The magic number is 19kW, which is just slightly under 25.5hp. (24.479).

That helps. Can you provide a link to the EPA tractor Tier IV regs? I would like to read the regs and file a copy for reference.

Thanks.

 

[NYCheese]

Quick Google search got me this: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf

Not much to read there, but it does show the engine sizes in kW on the chart, along with acceptable levels of exhaust gasses.

I'm sure there's something better, but navigating the EPA website should probably come with a "known to cause cancer in the state of California" warning on it.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

The number your looking for is 19KW which is 25.5 HP if your scientific about it.

All the models you listed are Tier 4 compliant, all tractors today have to be. However the requirements differ depending on the HP range, and under this magic number no DPF is required to scrub the soot from the exhaust.

 

[oosik]

Emission Standards: USA: Nonroad Diesel Engines


Jeff - this looks like what you are searching for.............

 

[DieselBound]

Quick Google search got me this: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100OA05.pdf

Not much to read there, but it does show the engine sizes in kW on the chart, along with acceptable levels of exhaust gasses.

I'm sure there's something better, but navigating the EPA website should probably come with a "known to cause cancer in the state of California" warning on it.

You can take swipes at Cali all you want, but it don't change the realities of emissions. If you think it's all crap try taking a visit to some place like Manila: I have plenty of exposure to Manila- anyone saying that they enjoy all the extremely hardcore soot emitted from old diesel engines in Manila is insane. Heck, drive behind a 60s era gasser and tell me that you like the stench. I prefer the non-stench and the reduced soot, thank you very much. That said...

The Big Picture has not, IMO, been fully given. I don't think that the full pollutant load from design (work done to create the designs), manufacture (including mining of materials), operate (regens and maintenance) and dispose of this newer stuff is adequately measured such that it tells us if things come out a net positive.

And... I have only ONE piece of equipment that is Tier IV (my Kioti): rest is from the decade of the 90s (up to 2000)- I'd prefer if these things were less stinky and less soot producing, but they're machines that I have signed up to, and can, maintain.

 

[jeff9366]

The number your looking for is 19KW which is 25.5 HP if your scientific about it.

All the models you listed are Tier 4 compliant, all tractors today have to be. However the requirements differ depending on the HP range, and under this magic number no DPF is required to scrub the soot from the exhaust.

I get the first part.

B2601 specs 25.5 horsepower, right on the demarcation line. or OVER, if 19KW is interpreted as 25.479 horsepower.
B2601: Tier IV (or) NOT Tier IV? DPF?

B2650 specs 26 horsepower, clearly requiring Tier IV emission controls.
Does B2650 have DPF? (or) What is unique about B2650 that Kubota can achieve Tier IV emission standards without a DPF?

 

[DieselBound]

Tier IV doesn't say how emissions requirements/levels are to be met. Some manufacturers, Mahindra being one I know of (or did at the time I was shopping for a larger tractor), boasted of meeting Tier IV w/o a DPF. A DPF is just a "strategy"/system used to meet Tier IV requirements.

Smaller engines, from how I'm gathering/reading, seem to produce less soot and that this can be dealt with without DPFs. This is my understanding. I have not delved into the true FACTS because I was not shopping for a smaller tractor.

Regardless, if an engine is to meet Tier IV it is tested and verified to meet Tier IV emissions. How it's done differs (and for some, as VW did, it is "met" using "interesting" means).