Oil & Fuel Tips / Techniques to changing Hyd Oil

[woodlandfarms]

Lots of threads going on on Oil, so I wanted to hear how everyone deals with the Hydraulic oil system. Any and all tips welcome. Especiallly intrigued in how you purge your hydraulic lines of old oil. Anyone using outside filtering systems (Ken is building one, Someone put one on their PTO but no pictures). How do you deal with Sludge buildup.

Anyway. You get the drift....

Carl

 

[Barryh]

Lots of threads going on on Oil, so I wanted to hear how everyone deals with the Hydraulic oil system. Any and all tips welcome. Especiallly intrigued in how you purge your hydraulic lines of old oil. Anyone using outside filtering systems (Ken is building one, Someone put one on their PTO but no pictures). How do you deal with Sludge buildup.

Anyway. You get the drift....

Carl

Great idea, a very beneficial thread for those of us that don't have a clue, and are weak on the inner workings of hydraulics, which seem to control every aspect and function of the PT. To me seems every model has a slightly different valve setup along with different ports, and hose placement. Pictures of these components would really help me understand a lot more. Especially since I am toying with and looking into making a light duty mini hoe in the next month or so.

 

[MossRoad]

I've had my PT425 for 6 years. It has about 300 hours on it. The hydraulic fluid in it is still the same motor oil that came from the factory. When I check it, it still looks clean and clear. I've never fished for sludge in the tank, and don't want to stir up sediment. I think that since there is not combustion going on, the motor oil will be fine as a hydraulic fluid for years and years, as long as I do not allow it to become contaminated. I cannot think of a reason to change the hydraulic fluid out, unless I can prove that it will do my equipment any good. It starts well in the cold, but does run hot in the summer months when mowing, and I can detect a bit of hill climbing power loss at those temps. I'm thinking more effiecient cooling may do more good than changing to a different weight hydraulic fluid.

 

[J_J]

Great idea, a very beneficial thread for those of us that don't have a clue, and are weak on the inner workings of hydraulics, which seem to control every aspect and function of the PT. To me seems every model has a slightly different valve setup along with different ports, and hose placement. Pictures of these components would really help me understand a lot more. Especially since I am toying with and looking into making a light duty mini hoe in the next month or so.

Are you talking about purge the old with the new oil? Or you talking about purging the system to a dry hose and valve state. In the case of purging the old oil with the new oil, just drain every system you can open . and run the new oil into the system. What little is left over will not make a big difference. To purge /clean the entire system is a major operation. What you are talking about here is trying to clean out as much sediment as you can by removing hoses and cleaning them very much like a gun barrel. Just pull swabs through until they come out clean. Most people will not go to that extreme. That add on using a 10 micron high pressure filter to the PTO circuit is a very good idea. You will probably filter about 10 times or more the volume of hydraulic fluid that you are filtering now. On my Dixie Chopper, they told me I could add Mobile one synthetic fluid to the 10w-40 motor oil that I have been using as a hydraulic fluid. I have always been curious if they mix up well. I really don't know if there is any set answer for the machines that use hydraulic type fluid. Most people don't know if their manuals and diagrams are correct or have enough detail to fully explain how things work.

 

[BobRip]

I was told that if you mess with the wheel motor circuit you should put on a 3 micron filter. If I were you, I would just drain what I can from the drain plug with the tractor tilted towards that side and then refil. Also change the hydraulic filter at the same time. That changes another quart. I did this and now use Mobil 1 15W50. I have much less torque drop off when hot than before. However the original oil was 5W30 and I think the new machines use 10W40 from the factory, so yours may not improve as much. I am much happier with this change, but have done no measurements.

 

[toy]

Lots of threads going on on Oil, so I wanted to hear how everyone deals with the Hydraulic oil system. Any and all tips welcome. Especiallly intrigued in how you purge your hydraulic lines of old oil. Anyone using outside filtering systems (Ken is building one, Someone put one on their PTO but no pictures). How do you deal with Sludge buildup.

Anyway. You get the drift....

Carl

You probably have a reason for intending on completly purging the oil out of your pt, but just in case you are thinking on changing the hydroulic oil as you would the engine oil you don't have to do that. While I was at Tazwell buying mine they said just to add oil as necessary to maintain the proper oil level, and change filters as recommended for the machine. Moss road said that he still has the oil that came in his in the hydroulic tank as of now I intend on doing the same thing. In one of JJs posts he talked about putting a filter in his pto and turning it on and filtering his oil occasionally. As I understand what he was talking about was to hook it where you would hook up the mower. That way when you were filtering the oil it would go to the filter through the filter and straight back to the tank, when I read his suggestion I felt he had a good idea. Moss Road has a thread that documents the procedure for doing the fifty hour service on his machine that you might find interesting to look at . If I was wanting to get all the oil out of my machine I would extend all of my cylinders cut the machine off and drain the tank take the hoses off of the cylinders and manually push the cylinders back in and any quick connect I would take off and crack the other end of the hose to let it get air to drain. That is how I would do it but I wouldn't do it.

 

[Barryh]

Are you talking about purge the old with the new oil? Or you talking about purging the system to a dry hose and valve state. In the case of purging the old oil with the new oil, just drain every system you can open . and run the new oil into the system. What little is left over will not make a big difference. To purge /clean the entire system is a major operation. What you are talking about here is trying to clean out as much sediment as you can by removing hoses and cleaning them very much like a gun barrel. Just pull swabs through until they come out clean. Most people will not go to that extreme. That add on using a 10 micron high pressure filter to the PTO circuit is a very good idea. You will probably filter about 10 times or more the volume of hydraulic fluid that you are filtering now. On my Dixie Chopper, they told me I could add Mobile one synthetic fluid to the 10w-40 motor oil that I have been using as a hydraulic fluid. I have always been curious if they mix up well. I really don't know if there is any set answer for the machines that use hydraulic type fluid. Most people don't know if their manuals and diagrams are correct or have enough detail to fully explain how things work.

J.J. you’ll have to excuse me. I have a bad habit of just rambling on here at times while in thought. Kind of just thinking out loud so to speak. What came to mind when this thread popped up for me, and I know this is a little off topic, was when I put in either a new set of three valves, or seeing if there is some kind of extra port on the existing valve setup to add one valve, for my Mini Hoe. That’s when I even get to that point. I would guess I just bleed the hose's back into the tank, like I did when changing the filter.

With my limited knowledge. I was just wondering how I would go about it, when I do decide on a valve arrangement. How would I purge the system with the least chance of problems of air in the system, along with the new hoses ect. I'm not looking to reinvent the wheel here, or get too complicated. I just want to make a working Functioning Mini Hoe.

Obviously, I have to do some research on my own. I don’t really expect anyone here to talk me through the whole thing. I do need to get a basic simple manual or book on how hydraulics work. So, I was just curious as to what will be involved when I do add the set of valves and hook up my Mini Hoe?

 

[woodlandfarms]

Hmmm My aluminum foil is getting thin. What I was getting at is that I never had the good fortune to go to Tazwell for the maintenance class. Frankly, until last night I was wondering where the drain plug was. And we all know the shop manual is about as thorough as a Chinese tractor.

So, I was really looking for the basic tricks. My tractor has a baffle, I assume everyone else does as well, so how do you get all your oil out? How do you deal with 20 gallons of oil (what size pan is going to fit under the drain that holds that much). How do you purge the system and why. how do you deal with residual oil in the hoses.

Two side notes. Supposedly my tractor came with new oil. I have to confirm this with PT. But it led a life of neglect prior to my purchase so I have gone through 2 filters in 10 hours of work. The third filter has held up well so I think whatever was going on is now gone or diminished. I could not cut through the oil filters to see what was jamming them up, but I still have them so when I have patience, or someones spiffy technique in mind, I will cut them open to explore.

Second side note is that Terry told me to disconnect the engine (a clip of wires at the rear of the engine near the throttle control) and turn the engine over to purge. Well, my engine started right up. I immediately shut down, called Terry, and he was baffled. But, as this is a hydaulic system, why would it hurt to be purging the oil and air with an engine that is running. The oil is still cooling the system and the bearings of the motors are still protected..

Anyway... But I do appreciate all the advice so far...

Carl

 

[MuncyBob]

I'm not sure what wires you are talking about to disconnect to purge air, I simply disconnect the spark plugs and then turn over the engine a few tomes to purge...has worked fine every time.

 

[KentT]

I'm not sure what wires you are talking about to disconnect to purge air, I simply disconnect the spark plugs and then turn over the engine a few tomes to purge...has worked fine every time.

He probably had one heck of a time trying to disconnect the spark plug wires on a diesel engine, tho...

Carl, he is correct that the procedure for bleeding the system on a gas-engined PT calls for unplugging the spark plug wires and cranking the engine with the starter (in about 10 second intervals) until you get a steady stream of oil coming out the port on the charge pump...

As I understand it, you never want the main hydro (i.e. tram) pump to run without oil in it for lubrication. So, you make sure that you've "primed" the charge pump (the filter is on the inlet side of the charge pump) and bled all the air out before you actually start the engine. Then, the charge pump will immediately provide enough oil to the tram pump so that it is fully lubricated...

When I changed the oil in mine, I simply did as someone described above. I made sure that it was warmed up and the oil at "operating temp" then I jacked up the left side of the tractor (ie. opposite the drain plug) and drained all the oil out. I filled it with oil, replaced the filter and bled the system -- then topped the oil off. I did NOT open any lines anywhere to drain them.

Having seen the microscopic metal particles and sludge that drained out of mine, I plan on either:

a) changing the oil about every 500 hours or so, or

b) putting a high-pressure filter on the system so I can filter it better