To LED, or not to LED, that is the question...

[aczlan]

I used to work for a hotel which has ~15 parking lot lights which have Metal Halide bulbs in them. The hotel is ~7 years old and I have replaced the bulbs twice, the sockets once and about half of the bulbs wont light. Replacing them means renting a lift and spending most of a day in it, only to have them die 6-12 months down the road, so I am wondering if it makes sense to revamp the fixtures to put in LED ones.
Anyone have any comments or suggestions?
These use small (4" D by ~10" L) 400W metal halide bulbs with a mogul base and I have been using Prolume bulbs from a local supply house.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[mjw357]

lanechanger | gelightingsolutions.com

No idea on cost, you'll have to find a distributor and price it.

 

[dmccarty]

I just glanced at the article but there was recent report in the Wall Street Journal about LED street light affordability. The report said that some cities were using LEDs now even though their up front cost is high because the cities save on the cost to replace lights using older technology.

You would have to check the light costs, light lifetime, and cost to replace with the older technology. If the price is not quite right I think it soon will be.

Later,
Dan

 

[Mounted Madness]

I just glanced at the article but there was recent report in the Wall Street Journal about LED street light affordability. The report said that some cities were using LEDs now even though their up front cost is high because the cities save on the cost to replace lights using older technology.

You would have to check the light costs, light lifetime, and cost to replace with the older technology. If the price is not quite right I think it soon will be.

Later,
Dan

We've had similar circumstances up here in Canada. Many cities have been converting their traffic lights over to LED systems simply due to the significant savings in replacement costs. Additionally, many businesses have had their emergency lighting systems (ie: fire exit lights) converted over to LED, again due to cost of replacement - but also longevity of service - and liability I presume in the event of an emergency and lights are burned out.

You'd clearly hear a lawyer singing in that event.

I'd suggest you contact a couple of suppliers to get their input and recommendations. Failures like you describe seem a little too frequent, and there may well be a circuit issue that needs to be addressed - though I'm no electrician by a long shot.

Good luck...:thumbsup:

 

[Scooby074]

Your lamp life seems a bit low..

But anyways, one thing to remember is you wont get the same light output from a LED as you do from a 400W MH. If you only have 15 locations, this could mean adding more spots or living with reduced light.

LED is quite directional, not like traditional street lighting that diffuses in all directions. You wouldnt believe the amount of "extra" ambient light from the diffusion.

Our province changed from HPS to LED for roadway lighting. Directly under the light, it's great, however when your 50' down the road there is next to no light. The old HPS streetlights provided some light at the extremities. This is great for those opposed to light pollution and trying to "save the night sky" but not so much for drivers

Our province went with this company http://www.ledroadwaylighting.com/ . Coincidentally they have a plant here... but it would never be a political decision.. would it Their products seem to be holding up well with minimal repairs. No idea of cost, but you can imagine. Even a traditional commercial grade MH light is not cheap... LED being still relatively new would be even more so. There is contact information on their website.

 

[forgeblast]

I saw a new article (local) where they were having a problem with led traffic lights. They do not heat up enough to melt any snow on them and they had to send people out to clean the lights.

 

[jdfire]

Many cities have been converting their traffic lights over to LED systems simply due to the significant savings in replacement costs.

That's happening around here too. Interesting problem in the winter is that the blowing snow that accumulates in front of the light doesn't melt because the LEDs don't generate as much heat. I've seen some stop signals completely blocked with snow.

 

[DKCDKC]

As a writer, I recently did a magazine article on some LED developments. GE and some other manufacturers are offering street/parking lot LED lights now that seem to offer the same amount of light as more conventional bulbs, but at a way lower energy use. The thing about LED bulbs is that they are so long lasting that manufacturers are beginning to make them an integral part of a fixture. In other words, you buy the street light or other fixture with the LED in it to stay. When the LED burns out about the claimed 50,000 hours or so, you just replace the fixture. They are already selling can lights and such for residential use that are like that. They say people will ultimately see the LED bulb as an integral part of the fixture, not something to be replaced. LEDs will probably not replace all other bulbs, but they will make a dent.

The real innovation seems to be in the area of OLEDs or Organic LEDs. These are light fixtures that can be made into a large sheet. The entire sheet glows, not just a point source light. Ultimately you could have your entire ceiling glow, not a single fixture, and for a fraction of the electricity from a conventional light. DOE says it is possible to make OLEDs that are transparent when off, so you could have windows that let in sun during the day, but become light fixtures at night. I gather some of these things will be on the market in a few years.

LEDs cost a lot more, but their long lift and efficiency repay that cost with spades, if you are willing to make the investment. I'm doing it for lights that stay on a lot, or are tough to reach. If you shop around, use coupons from utilities and the like, you can get LEDs for little more than the CFLs.

 

[grsthegreat]

I consulted with some of my wholesale houses a few months back.. and as of then there were NO LED replacements equivalent to 400 watt MH. They can reach aprox 175 watt equivalency at this time.

Cost for a 175 equiv light isnt too bad, but ones shaped to replace parking lot tight standards get pretty spendy.

Now as for the 400 watt issue. I install upwards to 100 of the 400 watt and 1000 watt MH fixtures in any given year... and have very few issues with them. Most last 4-5 years on the bulb when used dusk to dawn.

If the lamp isnt replaced soon after burning out, the ballast will probably burn out soon also.

My 1000 watt arena lights are 5 years old, and still loom look they did when brand new.

LED technology will be great... but im not a real fan of it as yet. I keep running the numbers and it hasnt paid for itself yet...unless the utility is offering a rebate. but give it time......

 

[aczlan]

I consulted with some of my wholesale houses a few months back.. and as of then there were NO LED replacements equivalent to 400 watt MH. They can reach aprox 175 watt equivalency at this time.

Thanks, was looking for that kind of info. What about something like this: 160W High Power LED Streetlight,600W Metal Halide Replacement ?

Now as for the 400 watt issue. I install upwards to 100 of the 400 watt and 1000 watt MH fixtures in any given year... and have very few issues with them. Most last 4-5 years on the bulb when used dusk to dawn.
If the lamp isnt replaced soon after burning out, the ballast will probably burn out soon also.
My 1000 watt arena lights are 5 years old, and still loom look they did when brand new.

Not what I wanted to hear, but it makes sense. If I were to replace the ballast, I should replace the bulb at the same time, correct?

Have you seen a Mogul socket burn through the screw that holds the threaded part of then bulb in? I have seen that and what looks like arcing between the center contact on the bulb and the center contact on the socket on several of these lights.

I may suggest replacing the sockets at the same time as the ballast replacement to have a clean starting point.

Thanks

Aaron Z