Toilet Mystery! Can you solve it?

[N80]

The first thing I'll admit is that I'm no plumber. The second thing that I'll admit is that I often do my own plumbing. And with that out of the way let me share a strange plumbing problem......that I eventually solved. Let's see if you can.

Now, to set this up, this problem involved the toilet in my cabin. I built this cabin myself and did the plumbing myself including the DWV system. Its a simple set up: one toilet, one tub/shower, one bathroom sink, one kitchen sink. The cabin is about 4 years old now and all has been working perfectly.

Then, over the last two weekends the toilet went to flushing poorly. With each flush the bowl would fill up and then slowly drain back down to its normal level but as this progressed the soild material and toilet paper would not go down. All other fixtures were draining normally. What would you do here? I got the plunger out and plunged! Each time it would force the water out, but the next flush it would be the same.

What now? More plunging of course. Still no change.

So, I take a trip under the house and open the large access cap and look down the main waste pipe all the way to the septic tank. Clear as a bell. No standing water. No obstructions. (I'm pretty happy at this point, I can fix most things north of the septic tank.)

Back to the bathroom. Plunge some more.....as you can see, I'm really betting on some sort of clog. Again, no luck.

At this point I become convinced that there is something hard and solid stuck in the toilet. Something like a toothbrush or lotion bottle, whatever.

So in frustration I pull the whole dang toilet out and take it out in the yard. Fill the tank up and flush it. Bingo, flushes like a champ. Figure it out yet? Well, good for you. I didn't.

With a little hope I take it back inside. Set it on a new wax ring and hook it back up. With baited breath I flush it again. Same thing.

Back under the house. I open a small 2.5" access cap on the line and plan on 'watching' it flush. Wife flushes it while I'm looking down the line and water rushes through. Wife yells down that it is flushing perfectly.

Figure it out yet? Me too.

I put the cap back on. Now it won't flush again. Solution confirmed.

Still haven't figured it out? Don't feel bad, its because I didn't give you all the details (which I did not remember up until this point aynway.)

Next stop....the attic. Instead of putting a hole in my perty metal roof, I ran my vent pipes into the attic and capped them with Studor vents. That's the info I didn't tell you and which I forgot too. Well, pulled the vent off the toilet's vent stack and it flushes like a charm again. For some reason the Studor vent won't allow air in or out. Popped a new Studor vent on there and all is well.

All this took about two hours and I was proud that I figured it out but felt pretty stoopid that it took me so long. How long would it have taken you to figure it out?

(Now, this Studor vent system is pretty unconventional but it passed inspection and we've had no problems with septic gases in the house or attic. We've discussed before that this is not an ideal set-up and after this I'll probably put the main vent stack through the metal roof, just to avoid a similar failure in the future. I'm sure the roof will leak at this point the first time it rains. )

 

[dooleysm]

My vision of a cabin may differ from what you have, so this may not be good advice. But, if I had what I consider a cabin, with a metal roof, I think I would run that vent stack out the side of the cabin. No worries about a leaky roof. My experience is that holes in the wall are easier to seal than holes in the roof.

I wouldn't do this on my house, but for the cabin in my mind I would.

 

[MrJimi]

From your very detailed experience ! I would blame the vent on this one. It's like taking a 2 liter bottle full of water and turning It upside down. It will not give you full flow till you vent It
You found your problem as far as I'm concerned. vent will flow great
If you want to play?? drill a 1/4 inch hole in the bottom of a 2 liter bottle and place your finger over it and turn it upside down and release your finger and watch it come out real good

 

[MossRoad]

I've never heard of a studor valve before, so I looked them up. Neat.

 

[gordon21]

Your mystery was harder because the plumbing was not up to code for most places. You can use the special tudor vents around the house, BUT, you usually still have to have at least one traditional open vent to the outdoors either through the roof or wall.

If you did have the roof vent and your problem persisted, then there would have been a blockage between the top of the vent pipe and the line to the toilet. Climb up on the roof with a hose, run the water wide open and have someone check a cleanout near the septic tank. If you suddenly have water running all over you and the roof instead of going through the cleanout, you have found your problem.

 

[mikim]

I'm gonna hope that the vent pipe is 3 or 4" pipe ..... run it through the roof - make sure you run it high enough to get the proper draft - (like ya shoulda done) and use a lead cap - not plastic - get the lead one. It'll form really nice on your metal roof - use whatever additional sealer you want to use around the lead cap and it won't leak. I think I used mobile home roofing cement as my additional sealer.

 

[N80]

Your mystery was harder because the plumbing was not up to code for most places.

I still don't know how it passed inspection, which was pretty rigorous for everything else. Very picky. I guessed they must have missed it but the walls were open and no ceiling was installed so they could see that the stack ended in the attic space.

Anyway, it has worked well for four years. I'm just not sure why the Studor vent failed. It is a very simple device with a flat round piece of rubber that allows air in, but not out. I'm wondering if septic gasses kept upward pressure on it and the rubber flap got sticky and stuck in the closed position. Or maybe the rubber oxidized and got hard and wouldn't 'flap'. Who knows.

I might take dooleysm's advice and vent out through the eave. I really don't want to put a hole in my roof.

MrJimi, I knew it was a vent issue as soon as it flushed properly while I had that little access cap off under the house. I should have figured it out when it flushed properly out in the yard....but I'm not too bright when it comes to plumbing...as you can see.

But at this point I'm still smiling for three reasons 1) it wasn't the septic system, 2) I did eventually fix it and 3) it took 2 hours and not 2 days!

 

[N80]

I'm gonna hope that the vent pipe is 3 or 4" pipe .....

It is a 4" pipe

run it through the roof - make sure you run it high enough to get the proper draft - (like ya shoulda done)

You're right, of course. But as a total novice when I built this cabin I did not invent any of the things I did. I'm sure I read about this set up somewhere. Problem is, I just didn't have the experience to recognize it as a potentially bad idea. And then again, it has worked perfectly for 4 years and the failure, the Studor vent failure, is a pretty uncommon thing...so I'm told.

and use a lead cap - not plastic - get the lead one. It'll form really nice on your metal roof - use whatever additional sealer you want to use around the lead cap and it won't leak.

I think you are vastly under-estimating my ability to screw something up! If I do eventually decide to do the right thing, I'll probably bite the bullet and pay a pro. If I do it, it will leak.

 

[MrJimi]

George, you have a Nikon !! the world is ours, I own 5 of them, not as nice as yours but mine
Sometimes the simplest problems can be our greatest
glad ya got It resolved
Jim

 

[Bird]

I can sure understand the problem of a vent being closed or plugged, but like MossRoad, I'd never heard of a studor vent before, so had to look it up. I helped a son-in-law a little bit on a job this past summer where we just might have used one of those if we'd known about it. But at least I let him do the crawling around in the attic instead of me. Just one more of the hundreds of things I've learned on Tractorbynet.