Towing a 1430

IrTxRx · Sep 7, 2014

7 years 700 hours and first breakdown -- I turn key and goes up to 12/14 amps in run position, but when I move to 'start' position, all I get is a single 'click/thunk' like a switch moving somewhere and meter/lights go to zero. Battery is fine, but that is all I know is fine. I think my starter or solenoid is shot, but need to get tractor out of field to work on and diagnose the problem. I want to back-up a flatbed trailer and winch up the PT.

From the PT manual, it states to open the tow valve 2 turns... but then becomes a little unclear whether I need to attach some kind of a bypass hose.

From the manual:
"Open tow valve tow turns. The tow ports shown below have 90-degree fitting screwed into the ports. Attached to the 90-degree fitting is another fitting with a steel cap. Remove the caps from the fitting in each port and screw the jumper hose provided into the fitting and connect the two ports shown in the diagram. NOTE: Tow slowly, also note these ports can be used to check high pressure"

QUESTION(s) to group:
1.) the pic attached actually looks similar to my pump (except the valve on the far right has a fitting which leads to the draft control assembly)... but wouldn't a "90-degree" fitting look like an elbow?
2.) Is it really necessary to connect the extra hose? This just seems more complicated than it needs to be
3.) If I do have to connect a 'bypass hose'...what do I do with the hose that now runs from pump to draft control assembly (oh, and I never received and kind of 'provided' jumper hose at purchase -- just the single fitting open ended hose to bleed air after filter change)?
4.) do I call Terry or Duetz if my professional mechanic says "what the heck is that!!!"

Additional info - you guys are probably thinking... why doesn't he just test/remove/replace the solenoid or starter. Answer: I am probably the least mechanically inclined PT owner and have to get some professional help to teach me how to test everything vs. just replacing possibly functional parts until I find what is broke
P.S. my neighbor who lives on similar rock/hilly Central Texas land bought a JD hydrostatic 30hp tractor/loader same time I bought mine... He has 63hrs on his machine

BobRip · Sep 7, 2014

I would call Terry first. Put a tarp over it for now. Sorry I can't come over and help. A little to far from VA. Is there anyone near.

Can you use jumper cables to bypass the solenoid and power the starter directly from the battery. I don't know this machine well. Also you could power the solenoid directly from the battery with jumper cables. This would bypass any interlock or starter switch issues.

How do you know the battery is good? Are the battery terminals clean? Are the battery cables tightly connected to ground on the negative cable and the starter for the positive cable? Is the PTO switch off?

IrTxRx · Sep 7, 2014

BobRip said:
Can you use jumper cables to bypass the solenoid and power the starter directly from the battery.
RESPONSE -- I did put jumper cables on the screw that holds in the positive cable to what I think is the solenoid (small cylindrical thingy mounted parallel to the big cylindrical thingy that says "BOSCH") and saw a little spark when cable connected, nothing impressive... I think the key was in the run position... nothing happened

Also you could power the solenoid directly from the battery with jumper cables. This would bypass any interlock or starter switch issues.
RESPONSE -- see above, not sure how to go directly to starter (big cylindrical thingy).

How do you know the battery is good?
RESPONSE -- charged the battery and re-installed (nothing)... replaced with Interstate car battery which was working fine to start car and pretty new (nothing).

Are the battery terminals clean?
RESPONSE -- yes, but wire brushed them anyway (nothing)

Are the battery cables tightly connected to ground on the negative cable (RESPONSE -- on the battery terminal, yes... but will have to check wherever they end up on the ground side)

and the starter for the positive cable?
RESPONSE -- yes, but gave 1/8th turn just to be sure

Is the PTO switch off?
RESPONSE -- yes

Sorry for all the "RESPONSE" stuff. been a while since I've posted (too busy with kids and tractoring) and can't quickly figure out how to change font color

MossRoad · Sep 8, 2014

If you can, disconnect the battery, remove the starter and solenoid and take it to Autozone for testing. Or any other auto shop. They usually do free testing.

I did read your concerns about your mechanical ability. And I respect that. I've had help with many things before I learned to do them myself and I'm still learning and getting help on new topics.

MossRoad · Sep 8, 2014

And to answer your question about towing, yes, I believe that means you need to open those two ports and connect a hose between them. As suggested, call Terry at Power Trac for instructions. 1-800-the-yard. Good luck. :thumbsup:

woodlandfarms · Sep 8, 2014

For my machine it was just to open the ports. No hose connection but I have a different machine (What a PITA if this is true).

Just because your tractor reads 12-14 volts means nothing. Cells in batteries die, so I would take the battery in first, or just test swap with one in your truck. If the battery is not the issue, I look then toward my grounds. Just take them off (Battery to engine at engine side) clean and re-attach.

If that fails then i go to the relay. This can be tested with just a volt meter. Sometimes they fail in such a way that they allow the voltage but not enough amperage but that is very rare.

Finally in the chain is your starter. Pull and take in like suggested.

It could be your starter switch, but not likely. Again when you put a meter on your solenoid you will be able to determine.

I think it is your battery.

MossRoad · Sep 8, 2014

He said in a reply he tried another battery. It was hidden in the quote in post #3.

ponytug · Sep 8, 2014

Sounds like a bad solenoid on the starter. aka as a bad starter. (There are two solenoids; I mean the solenoid on the starter itself, not the PT added second solenoid.)
You can try using a jumper cable to directly connect the battery to the starter terminal; you will get sparks, and perhaps a start, so be prepared if it does start. That would at least get your PT out of the field. If this sounds dangerous, it is.

Pulling the starter is pretty easy; after disconnecting the battery, and the cable, there are just two bolts, and it slides out.

All the best,

Peter

PTWannaHave · Sep 9, 2014

ponytug said:
Sounds like a bad solenoid on the starter. aka as a bad starter. (There are two solenoids; I mean the solenoid on the starter itself, not the PT added second solenoid.)

Curious, what is the purpose of the PT-added-2nd-solenoid...?

I recently had a similar problem on my car; I went through two defective Champion starters already and am on my third one in three weeks... Can you say PITA?!

Another thing to look for in my experience, is for chaffing or cracked insulation on wiring. As you dig into the problem and remove stuff, take a good look at any electrical wires that are in the way. Corrosion where the wire enters a plastic terminal/junction is always a problem here, but probably not so much in Texas. You are more likely to have heat problems, such as partially melted wire sheathing.

Keep us posted,

ponytug · Sep 9, 2014

The Deutz starter is a Bosch, and the Bosch factory solenoid is very sensitive to voltage. By adding a second solenoid, PT takes the voltage drop on the first (older model Ford type) solenoid that is tolerant of a lower voltage drop, and supplies full battery voltage to the Bosch, that then is 'happy' and engages the starter. That means that hearing a "click" could be the first or the second solenoid.

A common point of failure is the wire that controls the first and the second solenoid as there is a fair amount of engine vibration that, at least on mine, cracked several ring terminals, breaking the electrical connection. With some different ring terminals and some additional wire restraint, I haven't had a repeat of the problem.

I bought a reconditioned one from O'Reilly/Kragen. My perception is that it cranks better than the original.

All the best,

Peter

PTWannaHave said:
Curious, what is the purpose of the PT-added-2nd-solenoid...?

I recently had a similar problem on my car; I went through two defective Champion starters already and am on my third one in three weeks... Can you say PITA?!

Another thing to look for in my experience, is for chaffing or cracked insulation on wiring. As you dig into the problem and remove stuff, take a good look at any electrical wires that are in the way. Corrosion where the wire enters a plastic terminal/junction is always a problem here, but probably not so much in Texas. You are more likely to have heat problems, such as partially melted wire sheathing.

Keep us posted,