TPH Direct Drive Winch Project

bobodu · Jul 24, 2005

( it could lift something that weighs 2500 Lbs up out of (for example) a well? )

If I could get the mother in law down there in the first place...I sure as heck wouldn't be worrying anout getting her out!!!

chim · Jul 24, 2005

Nice work. There are a couple things I wonder about.

Since the rope will be feeding up onto the spool from the casing, it will likely want to wrap around a narrow spot on the reel. Something similar to the guide on a fishing reel to traverse the spool and distribute the rope may be helpful. I picture the rope wanting to stack itself at one place on the spool till it kinda "falls over".

I have used real rope winches, and they don't accumulate the rope. The spool (aka capstan) has a curve that accepts the rope as you pull on it. The rope feeds onto the larger part of the curve, and that pushes the rope you are pulling on to the smaller diameter part of the capstan. This (as long as the load provides enough tension) prevents the rope from wrapping on itself. Since the rope is only being pulled by the friction caused by the load resistance and the tension you provide, the pull can be stopped, or speed varied even though the RPM's are constant. If you go to greenlee.com and check the cable pulling section, you can see better what I'm trying to explain...................chim

MikeIA · Jul 24, 2005

( Since the rope will be feeding up onto the spool from the casing, it will likely want to wrap around a narrow spot on the reel. Something similar to the guide on a fishing reel to traverse the spool and distribute the rope may be helpful. I picture the rope wanting to stack itself at one place on the spool till it kinda "falls over".
)

As long as there is enough distance from the top of the casing to the winch for the rope to move back and forth , the rope should wind itself nicely in layers. Aircraft cable does this on the winches I've worked with, as long as there remains tension on the line. Only when the rope is fed rigidly on one spot on the spool will it "stack up" on itself.

Those capstan winches from the Greenlee catalog are nice, too....don't have to worry about starting and stopping the winch, just keep a steady pull on the rope, and here comes the load! ( )

hobbyfarm · Jul 24, 2005

54' a minute is kind of fast for a winch. Of course, you can reduce the speed with a snatch block. May work better as a windlass for your application of pulling the sub-pump.

Don't forget the fencing application; rolling up barbed wire.
And, I'd pass on the overhead hoisting applications. Hoists have a brake on them for safety.

GuglioLS · Jul 25, 2005

Thanks for the many replies –
I will try to answer all the questions in order

 Buzz_Sawyer
 “I am curious how it pulls? I would like to build one, what kind of motor is that?” 

I installed a 100’x 3/16” cable on it today and pulled the 6000# tractor up a small slope no problem. The Motor is an Italian made META brand similar to White Hydraulics Motor # RS14040100 it is 4 & ½” bolt circle 3&1/4” Pilot Diameter, 1” keyed shaft # 10 O-ring ports 15.25 Cubic inch per revolution 2540 lb/in of torque. Found it on eBay for a “steel”

 Mike_C

“Does that number 2540 lb/in of torque mean it could lift something that weighs 2500 Lbs up out of (for example) a well?” 

Yes, I did some homework on torque and sure enough 2540 lb/in of torque will pull 2540# of stuff in any direction. In fact I did a “little” test just to prove it to myself.
I hooked the cable to my overhead chain hoist and with the hydraulics lifted the whole darn rear end of the tractor 2 feet off the ground. Sure enough as hobbyfarm suggested it did not stay there very long as when I released the valve the tractor returned to the ground as the spool unwound – the motor will not hold when idle so the direct drive is not that great or safe for overhead lifting. A worm gear and higher speed motor would be much better for that type of application. But for what I want to do – horizontal pulling & pulling out the well (about 250 lbs) 20 feet at a time it will work very well.

 Cliff_Johns

“I was also wondering if it means that he can flip his tractor over without even being on it.” 

This is a possibility – however I think that the cable would break first. And if not it would be in very slow motion (Famous Last Words). I will be careful.

 chim 

Point well taken – after some experiments today I did find that at a minimum I will need to add some sort of tensioning device to put pressure on the cable / rope to keep it from unwinding when not in use. There was no problem of the rope winding on top of itself as I can guide the rope by hand. Were only talking about 150’ of ¼” nylon rope to pull the well out. The well casing is 1’ above ground and I can get the TPH about 3 & 1/2’ above it so I have lots of room to guide it on the spool.

 hobbyfarm

“54' a minute is kind of fast for a winch. Of course, you can reduce the speed with a snatch block.”
 I found the speed to be just about right it is not that fast – I can control the speed with the adjustable flow hydraulic divider already on the tractor in addition to “feathering” the control valve at the motor.

 “Don't forget the fencing application; rolling up barbed wire.”
 Yes thanks !!!!! I have lots of fence and need to pull more.

 And, I'd pass on the overhead hoisting applications. Hoists have a brake on them for safety. 

After my “little” experiment I will NOT be using it for overhead applications only the Horizontal or “underground” ones i.e. pulling the well, logs, fence etc.

Thank you all who replied.

Larry

Tim_in_IA · Jul 25, 2005

Larry, you are the king of the 2" tube accessory market! I get a real kick out of all of your creations. Great going! Can you adjust the speed with a hydraulic flow control of some sort?

hobbyfarm · Jul 25, 2005

( Larry, you are the king of the 2" tube accessory market! I get a real kick out of all of your creations. Great going! Can you adjust the speed with a hydraulic flow control of some sort?
)

Larry,
Ditto, what Tim_in_IA said. The winch is a cool device, and I'm sure you'll find many uses for it. I'm sorry I got side-tracked about the safety of using it as a hoist. I didn't want to see anyone get hurt.
BTW, I think it'd be cool if you mount it to the front of the tractor too (you never know when you'll need to pull yourself out of something). Maybe with a receiver hitch?? adapter. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

GuglioLS · Jul 26, 2005

YES I can control the speed with the VARIABLE Flow divider that I installed on the tractor before I installed the FEL.
AND OR I can control the speed by feathering the valve, these valves are good for feathering.

Here is a PIC of the variable flow divider.