Tractor comparison checklist

GarthH · Jan 16, 2007

Hi all

We are taking ownership of 36 acreage land in late April or early May.

I do not have any experience with tractors other than talking about them - I used to be a counter person for a parts store.

I would like to create a spreadsheet that would list all of the options /features that I should be considering so I can make a comparison. Has anyone created such a thing?

Our acreage runs beside the South Saskatchewan river, we have about 600 yards of river front. The river is about 30 feet below the primary plateau. There is about 20 acres of Alfalfa which we will leave to a renter. We will be having a large garden, grass, lots of loader work.

After lurking in the background at TBN, I think I need around 30 HP tractor. I wish I could get a cab on the tractor for our cold season but I doubt if I can cost justify the Utility tractor.

I am also thinking about a new tractor with a warranty. I am understand mechanics but always seem to get in some trouble do repairs. So maybe with a 3 year or 5 year warranty I can get used to the tractor.

This is sort-of unfortunate with the large number of farm auctions this year. I am detered from buying an auction deal because they generally have a lot of hours and CAT's or UT's go for pretty high value.

We have a fair number of dealers - JD, NH/Case/Ford, Massey, Kubta, and Montana. Kioti is about 90 miles north.

Any recommendations will help make a comparison spreadsheet.

How does the buying process work - Does the dealer give you an initial price, then do we counter a lower price or more stuff. Or does the dealer give you the best price? Is the barter process or not the same with all dealers?

I notice that Montana has 0% financing, if it is cash do they usually adjust the price?

Sorry for so many questions.

Thanks to all

jbrumberg · Jan 16, 2007

GarthH:

Welcome to TBN

! I would recommend that you try as many tractors as possible to get a "feel" for both the tractor and dealership. Both are equally important. Most of the Big "3 or 4" offer comparable tractors at competitive prices. Do not make yourself crazy

comparing the Sales and Marketing driven "specifications" in the marketing literature. The "data" compares the same variables differently. JD, NH, and Kubota (I believe) provide tractor finder softwear that appears to be FEL driven, but will help identify tractor models based on the information you input. I would look at weight, "footprint", ground clearance (some tractors have "soft underbellies") if you have rough terrain, and hydraulics. I would try to get the most HP for the tractor class (I, II, or III). You should give us more information about your intended uses and property terrain. If you intend to use ground engaging attachments I would go with a heavier tractor; if mowing will be your primary use I would go with a lighter tractor. If FEL work is going to be your primary task I would go 4WD, PS, and HST. You will probably get a lot of opinions from the readership. We all want to help you spend your money

. Once you get it down to a tractor of interest or two I would "play" the dealers. I warn you they do not often like to play

. I will warn you that there is no perfect tractor and there are a lot of HP junkies out there in TBN land. Jay

john_bud · Jan 16, 2007

Here's a version of a check list,

If you think you need a 2wd, 25 hp, 2000# tractor you really need a 4wd, 40 hp, 4000# tractor. Post your needs and "check" what everybody "lists".

Tractor sales guys can be great or they can make you wish you were dealing with a used car salesman with a bad hair hat. Always know as much or more than the sales person before you go in. Never talk money or deals until you are ready to buy. Never take the first offer. Always leave to think it over, on the way out, by the door - look over your shoulder and give a counter that is good for that day only.

example;

Stop at the door to put on your coat or new branded hat the sales guy gave you, look at the offer sheet. Start to put it in your pocket, look at it again --> look over your shoulder (with one hand on the door) and say that if the offer was $19,500 and not $22,750 you would buy it, now - today. Assuming you know that 19,500 is a good place to be. If they hemm and haw, let them know that the next day you are going "back to" the competition to get a final look at their tractor before putting your money down.

One strange thing that seems to happen with sales guys. They may give an email request for quote a better deal than if you go in to the see them in person.

jb

Soundguy · Jan 17, 2007

Lots of things to consider.

2wd vs 4wd, power steering vs manual steering. tire type.. most common are turf, industrial and Ag.

If you are using a loader.. DO get PS.. and deeply consider 4wd.

Turf tires are kind to grass and soft soils.. however lack traction for heavy digging and pulling. AG tires have significant traction, and are very agressive. Soft soils and delecate grasses will be printed if you use ag's. Industrials are a go-between. better traction than turf.. though not as agressive as an AG.

Base your tractor size on the size of implements you want.. base your implement size on the types of jobs you will be doing, and how long you want that to take. ( a kubota bx with a 40" mower can mow 100ac..... if you mow day and night continously!! )

If you already know you don't want to get into mechanical repairs.. then either buy new with a warranty.. or slightly used with a warranty.. or at very least.. slightly used and just out of warranty.. and have a good relationship with the local dealer of that color. You may want to consider staying with a BIG 3 brand.. or a very popular '2nd' brand, and get one with great dealer support... both parts and labor.

For 30 ac.. I'd say a minimum of 30hp... ( and a max of 100 hp )

Once you hit the UT / 50hp range.. you will notice that implement cost will rise dramatically. That is.. 5' and 6' implements are 'fairly' reasonable.. however 7-8-9-10-12-15 foot implements can be pretty spendy... So keep implement cost in mind when buying your tractor... You won't be happy about buying a 65hp tractor and using your entire budget.. and then find out that a 12' mower is 6k$ more dollars.. etc.

Soundguy

psdx · Jan 17, 2007

GarthH said:
I would like to create a spreadsheet that would list all of the options /features that I should be considering so I can make a comparison. Has anyone created such a thing?

In no particular order, elements for comparison might include: weight (more for ground engaging, less for traversing finished lawns), wheelbase (shorter for tighter turning radius), tire size (affects footprint and pounds per square inch - more psi for ground engaging & less for mowing), horsepower, rpm for rated engine horsepower, rated horsepower at PTO, peak torque & rpm it peaks at, torque at rated engine speed, displacement of engine (more displacement is favorable for a better torque curve), flow rate in gpm for hydraulic system, 3-point hitch control type (position control, draft control, or quarter-inching), flow rate in gpm for power steering, lift capability of 3-point hitch (be sure to compare all at 24" behind lift arms, or all right at lift arm ends to be consistent), maximum travel speed, number of speed ranges, ground clearance, price, distance to dealer, and confidence in dealer's service ability.

I didn't list the transmission type as an element for the spreadsheet because I don't think you can really cross-shop a gear drive and a HST transmission, or HST/GST, etc. You almost need to decide that up front then limit your spreadsheet entries to tractors with that transmission type. This would be analagous to limiting your comparison to tractors having horsepower in the range that fits your need. For example, there's no point in wasting the time to gather information on a B-series tractor if you need a utility tractor to harvest hay.

Even though it might not be a spreadsheet item, I would also try to look at the torque curve for the tractors you consider. The John Deere 2320 for example has a torque curve that looks about like an upside down letter U and would be unsatisfactory for me. The JD 2520 and most of the Kubota B-series have torque curves that ramp up quickly (from left to right) then drop very slowly (almost linear) as the RPMs increase. To me, this is a very desirable characteristic that you might enter in a spreadsheet as a subjective variable - say a 1-to-5 rating, for example. Good luck with your search.

BillG_in_TX · Jan 17, 2007

GarthH said:
Hi all

We are taking ownership of 36 acreage ... I do not have any experience with tractors other than talking about them ... There is about 20 acres of Alfalfa which we will leave to a renter ... We will be having a large garden, grass, lots of loader work ... I think I need around 30 HP tractor. I wish I could get a cab on the tractor for our cold season ... I am also thinking about a new tractor with a warranty. Thanks to all

Garth,

You don't need a spreadsheet. You need a new Kubota B3030 w/cab.

I've been to Saskatchewan in the wintertime, and you need a cab!

BTDT · Jan 18, 2007

If your looking for something to spreadsheet, wouldn't that be a manure spreader?

john_bud · Jan 18, 2007

no no no, it's one "i" and not two "e".

jb

3RRL · Jan 19, 2007

BTDT said:
If your looking for something to spreadsheet, wouldn't that be a manure spreader?

LOL...

TrTom23 · Jan 19, 2007

Here are a couple of suggestions,
1. Stay with a known brand, NH, JD, Kub, etc..
2. Dealer support, the brand should somewhat determined by a dealer that is close by. Parts for an odd machine could be a challenge.
3. If any of the work is in the snow, 4-wheel drive is a real benefit. Cabs are nice, but a cab usually means a larger and more costly machine.
4. Transmission type - How many different people will be using the machine? Hydrostatic can be easily used by anyone with very little training.
5. Size??? Smaller machines are less costly but aren't as productive. Larger machines do more work, but are $$$, and as noted previously, inplements also cost more. Taking longer with a smaller machine is not a bad thing unless the tractor is used for a business.
6. Horsepower?? Very few operations really tax the engine.
7. Loader, Very nice to have, but keep in mind they are designed for moving material. Heavy digging should be left to a construction machine that is designed for that purpose.
8. Talk to people who have them, and most important test drive as many as possible.

Happy Shopping!

Turbys_1700 · Jan 20, 2007

Lots of good advice here as always. The first thing I would do is to determine my budget. How much can I afford to spend. That puts things in perspective as to how much tractor you can afford. Then list your primary tasks and design the purchase around that. You're biggest decisions will deal with 2wd or 4wd and transmission types. All 3 major brands are great as well as 2nd tier brands. Dealer support is very important. Since you live up North if you're gonna do winter work you may consider a cab option but that's gonna cost a bundle. Good luck and keep us updated.

GarthH · Jan 20, 2007

Hi guys. Thanks for the great suggestions. Weekend is here again so I was able to get out to see the Kubota dealer. Small dealership so the owner spent some time with me. They certainly seem to have a lot of product going through. They have a L3430 coming in on a trade, HST, about 270 hours, cab, FEL and many small options. He did not have the final price but thought it would be around 20K. It was close to the price of a new 30HP Montana with FEL. Hopefully next weekend I will get up to look at the Kioti, the dealer is a hour away but he has local depot.

Oleozz · Jan 21, 2007

That barely used 3430 just might be your ticket to a nice tractor. Considering where you live the cab would be a big plus in the winter. The 3430 has a pump capacity of 13.2 gpm which I think is very good for a 33.6 hp tractor. It has a 3 point hitch lift capacity of over 2,600 lbs and has a total weight (with cab) of over 3,600 lbs. All in all a nice tractor for 20k.

BillG_in_TX · Jan 21, 2007

GarthH said:
Hi guys. Thanks for the great suggestions. Weekend is here again so I was able to get out to see the Kubota dealer. Small dealership so the owner spent some time with me. They certainly seem to have a lot of product going through. They have a L3430 coming in on a trade, HST, about 270 hours, cab, FEL and many small options. He did not have the final price but thought it would be around 20K. It was close to the price of a new 30HP Montana with FEL. Hopefully next weekend I will get up to look at the Kioti, the dealer is a hour away but he has local depot.

Garth,

I agree - the L3430HST is a great tractor, and with a FEL and cab for $20k (Canadian, I assume) that sounds like a great price. If it's in good shape, I think you should jump on it.

LSUalum · Jan 21, 2007

I was reading this thread and was curious to get a few "experienced" opinion. I am in the market for a new tractor and have it pretty much nailed down on my priorities, but I need some "real world" numbers.
First,
My first priority is mowing about 3 acres of lawn, so weight is my biggest issue. With R4 tires, how much is too heavy? I know this depends a lot on my soil type, as well as my grass. It is a sandy mix with bermuda. I am debating between a Kubota L3400 (2400 lbs) and a L3130 (3150 lbs). Would the L3130 be too heavy?
The other work I will be doing is clipping pastures, grading and harrowing riding pens, and a few odds and ends.
Any thoughts?

GarthH · Feb 3, 2007

Hi all

I was up to see the Kioti dealer, located about an hour north. He had the CK30 and I also looked at the DK45, one of his customers had one.

The CK was nice but there is no cab option. It had the HSK, KL130 FEL, joy stick, and remote hyd. The price is more in line with my desired budget about $19K US.

The DK had more standard equipment Wet Disc brakes, hand & foot throttles, auto leveling FEL and draft control. The transmission was Sync shuttle. The lifting capacity was about 50% greater for each 3PH and FEL. A 4 cyl engine rather than the 3 Cyl. Cost was about $30 K US.

The Kubota dealer is getting the used L3430 in this week. It has 195 hours, draft control, a cab and the upgraded Kubotaa FEL. The price quotes is higher than the initial discussion $28K US.

The weight of the 3430 and CK 30 are similar; the DK is about 50% greater.

Amazing the turning radius of the DK is better than each the CK and the L3430.

The dealer being an hour away is a little concerning. I notice in the warranty that they required Koiti replacement parts to be used which will be an issue for the normal service parts like filters and the such.

The customer that had the DK was mentioning he liked the smooth operation of the 4 cyl rather than his old Kubota 28 horse power. I notice the L3430 is a 3 cylinder.

The major issues I see -

I need to decide on the cab or not. There was a recent thread about cabs and our recent -30 weather is certainly affecting my thoughts.

The extra strength I don't think is a big issue. The only place I see it being dramatic would mybe unloading trucks - I am a wood worker so I will like see a few trucks a year that I could unload a few pallets of wood ( I am not quite sure the weight of a pallet of wood).

The HST vs shuttle shift certainly a convenience and resale issue.

Draft contol

Hyd flow on the L3430 is 13.2 compared to 10.8 on the DK.

Any thoughts??

Thank you again

Garth

RedDog · Feb 3, 2007

GarthH said:
Hyd flow on the L3430 is 13.2 compared to 10.8 on the DK.

Any thoughts??

Thank you again

Garth

Kioti web site says 14.2 GPM hydro flow total for DK45. 9.9 GPM for the main pump, and 4.3 GPM for the power steering.

Z-Michigan · Feb 3, 2007

GarthH said:
Hi all
The dealer being an hour away is a little concerning. I notice in the warranty that they required Koiti replacement parts to be used which will be an issue for the normal service parts like filters and the such.

The customer that had the DK was mentioning he liked the smooth operation of the 4 cyl rather than his old Kubota 28 horse power. I notice the L3430 is a 3 cylinder.

The major issues I see -

I need to decide on the cab or not. There was a recent thread about cabs and our recent -30 weather is certainly affecting my thoughts.

The extra strength I don't think is a big issue. The only place I see it being dramatic would mybe unloading trucks - I am a wood worker so I will like see a few trucks a year that I could unload a few pallets of wood ( I am not quite sure the weight of a pallet of wood).

The HST vs shuttle shift certainly a convenience and resale issue.

Draft contol

Hyd flow on the L3430 is 13.2 compared to 10.8 on the DK.

Any thoughts??

Thank you again

Garth

Some thoughts:
-I agree with everyone who says a cab is something you want in your area, unless you fly south for winter. And I am a fairly hardy resident of Michigan who is about to buy an open platform tractor.

-I looked at Kioti and was pretty impressed with their quality and features. But due to limited number of dealers in my area and great distance to even the closest, I have decided to rule them out.

-There is a lengthy thread on 3 vs. 4cyl. Short story is that there is no meaningful difference in smoothness, power or general usefulness. Some 3cyl designs are slightly more efficient than common 4cyl designs, but this is a small point.

-If you are going to be unloading pallets from a truck I would strongly consider HST. HST is definitely better for loader work in general, but with pallet work in particular you may put a lot of wear on the clutch of a gear shift transmission. If you want gear I would look at something which has a wet clutch, which includes the JD 4x20 series with 12x12 "powrreverser" and also the Kubota GST transmission.

-Based on reading here draft control is likely irrelevant unless you are plowing or doing lots of box blade work. Even then, it is not essential, though for plowing it would be useful.

-I would not be too concerned about rated hydraulic flow - I would look more at loader capacities and rated cycle times.

-Quality of the dealer is very important for such a long-term purchase. I would look for a brand with a good dealer network and a local dealer that you are extremely comfortable with. I would probably put this ahead of the brand itself in determining what brand to buy.

BTDT · Feb 4, 2007

Welcome to TBN and good luck with your search. I see where you said you were a parts man, was this for a tractor dealership? There are several dealers of different tractors around me, but they are all a 30 min or more drive. Hopefully, whatever you buy, you'll never need to go back to dealer, but if something breaks, it would be nice for parts to be close. But I'm sure you know how to get things done, if need arises.