Buying Advice Tractor for a little slice of Vermont

[sadbox]

Hey Folks,

My wife and I are about to close on a 113 acre property up in central VT, and we're trying to figure out exactly what we want for maintaining it.

Currently there are approximately 30 acres of open pasture, 4 acres we've set aside for the home site + gardening, and the rest is forest. It is relatively hilly, as is most of VT.

The pasture right now is being used by a neighboring dairy operation, we plan to migrate over to a small grass-fed beef operation over the course of a few years.

Budget is very flexible. This isn't an operation that necessarily has to justify its expenses.

Tasks that need tractoring:

• Dealing with the Cows
  • We're planning on a deep-pack bedding system, so daily bedding spreading.
  • Bale loading / unloading / winter feeding
  • Maybe cleaning the pack in the spring, but it's likely this would be worth renting a proper excavator for
  • Compost / manure spreading across the pasture
  • Occasionally renting a no-till drill for re-seeding the paddocks
  • Aerating the bed
• Mowing the fields until cows are doing it for us
• Snow blowing, it's a 1500ft driveway up a hill
• Maintenance of the gravel driveway
• Maintaining / building trails in the wooded areas
• A couple small projects, I'd like to build a small private shooting range
• Normal house/barn/property maintenance.

Currently we're leaning towards a Kubota L6060, the front blower + cab would make snow clearing much, much more pleasant. It's FEL is a little borderline for the barn work, but I expect that we'd be more likely to add a track loader than try to deal with a much larger or non-HST tractor for working in the barn. A backhoe might be nice as well, especially when digging out the pack in the spring.

Any thoughts are welcome, we're open to also looking at separating out our problems to multiple machines.

 

[sea2summit]

I think you can get a lot of that done with one tractor depending on the woods. A cabbed tractor (and I’m not sure the L60 is gonna be enough) takes a lot of room through the woods. My M4 through the woods requires me to maintain the trails with a pole saw with an extension to get high enough.

Unloading honestly sounds like one of the things you really need to think about. Unloading rounds stacked two high, especially on a semi trailer, you’re talking about up 600-1200# that’s 10-12’ off the ground. That’s really dangerous if you don’t have enough weight. Skid steer wouldn’t blink.

Next is hills…tractors don’t like hills. Most especially going down them with a load, or across the slope, or up the slope, or if there are any bumps when doing any of the above you’ll be choking on your seat because you’ll suck it right up your…you know.

Mucking is obviously doable by the a tractor but a skid steer will do much better.

And since I’m already strongly leaning toward a skid steer for your tasks they have benefits when it comes to snow like being able to use a plow vs blower. But it can also use a blower. Gonna cost more for a hydro blower but I think you’d be more satisfied with a properly sized skid and blower than a mid mount blower you can’t really see let alone maneuver in front of a tractor. Also if your feeding cows on the same day you need to blow that’s about 20 minutes+ of switching from fel to blower and back on a tractor vs seconds for the skid.

Definitely recommend spending some time getting to know the place and zero in on the stuff you need to do before spending money as you’ve either got a huge investment to make in a tractor or a huge investment to make in a smaller tractor and a skid.

 

[jeff9366]

We need a tractor capable of moving large hay bales (rounds 1,200-1,700 lbs)

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

In my area of Florida, which is hay country, round bales seldom weigh over 1,200 pounds.

An open station tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can lift and move 1,200 pound round bales using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and stack bales two high. However, the tractor will feel very tippy to a new operator unloading bales from a trailer or lifting bales to stack.

An open station tractor weighing 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can transport 1,200+ pound round bales safely with a Three Point Hitch mounted (rear) bale spear but can only lift bales a few inches. Transport but no stacking. The tractor is stable because the bale weight is low and bale weight is carried on the large, rear tractor tires, which do not pivot/steer.

A tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 10 to 25 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

For safety most recommend a 5,000 pound bare weight tractor for regularly moving and lifting bales heavier than 1,200 pounds using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and for safely moving/stacking 1,200 pound bales by inexperienced tractor operators using a front bale spear. A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor can stack round bales three high.

A tractor with a bare weight of 5,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 20 to 40 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.


​

 

[jeff9366]

My wife and I are about to close on a 113 acre property in central VT.

Currently there are approximately 30 acres of open pasture, 4 acres we've set aside for the home site + gardening, and the rest is forest. It is relatively hilly, as is most of VT.

Tractors are inherently unstable operating on sloped ground. Tractor rear wheel/tire spread, sometimes adjustable, is a critical factor increasing compact tractor stability working sloped or uneven ground. A 6" to 10" increase in rear axle width substantially decreases tractor rollover potential. Tractor width is an approximation of rear axle width.

The rear wheels on Kubota Grand L tractors are adjustable for width/stability with both R1/ag tires and R4/industrial tires.


When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.

I expect that we'd be more likely to add a track loader than try to deal with a much larger or non-HST tractor for working in the barn.

While expensive, a small track loader would be ideal for work in your barn. Most who own a compact track loader (CTL) would use the CTL for farm excavation work, in preference to a compact tractor equipped with an optional tractor backhoe, which must be removed before the Three Point Hitch is available to mount implements.

 

[Hoss710]

I'm not familiar with the Kubota line like I once was . but with a tractor with enough loader capability the round bails shouldn't be a problem. rear ballast is mandatory. I'd also get rear wheel weights and a ballast box unless you have a heavy attachment hanging off the 3 point hitch. also once you have lifted the bail off the truck, bring that loader down to close to the ground as possible, i have seen too many people want to drive with the bail up high, and thats the easiest way to flip a tractor always carry your loads close to the ground when moving. as far as snow removal you can't go wrong with a snow blower. it's the best tool for the job. Pushing a driveway that long isn't a good option. I would recommend R1 tires over R4s on a farm that size. because the land is hilly I'd want the widest stance set for the wheels. driving anything with a cab in the woods can be challenging. as branches can damage the cab if you don't take the time to cut limbs , and remove opsticals .back to the snow blower a front mount is way more friendly on your neck than a rear mount ( ask me how i know, I have a 925 ft driveway to clear). Skid steers are nice. but don't always have the ground clearance needed on a farm especially in the woods. but for barn work they do very well.

 

[jeff9366]

We're leaning towards a Kubota L6060, the front blower + cab would make snow clearing much, much more pleasant.

The L6060 FEL is a little borderline for the barn work....

A compact tractor equipped with an FEL is a much longer, cumbersome proposition relative to a CTL.

 

[Hoss710]

The MX is available with the hydrostatic transmission and a cab . maybe worth pricing 1 of those ?

 

[Tractorable]

If budget is a non-issue, separate machines would be ideal. Do what Mike Morgan does and get a cabbed compact tractor, CTL, and mini-ex.

 

[sadbox]

I think y'all are right, the more I look back through my post I'm most selling myself on the idea of getting a CTL. Some thoughts there:

I still would likely need a not-fully-compact tractor for running the no-till drill, some of the smaller compact drills are suitable for smallish tractors is my understanding. It would be a bear to use that for the whole property, but likely we'd only be seeding a couple paddocks with warm season grasses for the year, etc.

The MX is available with the hydrostatic transmission and a cab . maybe worth pricing 1 of those ?

My only reservation here is that with the elevation and such I'd really like the stall-guard and fancy features from the grand L. The other weird little bit of the lineup is that the Cabbed MX can't have a backhoe attached, and doesn't have a mid-pto for running a front snowblower.

Track loaders sketch me out a little bit for snow removal, they can move across the snow w/o issue but the low ground pressure and lack of easy application of chains make them super slippy once you get down to the ice. Price is not even really the issue here... the front-mounted blowers on the Grand Ls are similarly expensive.

So how about this for a plan:

• Grand L6060,
  • load the tires, get wheel weights, total weight would be somewhere north of 5k lbs
  • No issues with leaving the front-mounted blower on most of the winter
    • I had a dealer demo this, it is slightly annoying but didn't seem too bad if it needed to be done on occasion
  • Buy a lane shark for doing some taller trail maintenance to keep the cab safe
  • BH92 Backhoe
    • I don't have enough jobs to really justify owning a machine, and my implement work is not daily
• CTL of some variety, handles most of the barn work better, tracks help it in the mud
  • Also would be really nice if I want to rent or buy a mulcher

Maybe push out the CTL for a couple years until the cattle operation is fully underway, we're looking at a bare piece of land so we still need to get the barn built, etc.

 

[hornett22]

City folks sure are entertaining.

 

[sadbox]

City folks sure are entertaining.

I grew up in a 500 person town in Arkansas, less city, more just prone to overthinking things

 

[hornett22]

I grew up in a 500 person town in Arkansas, less city, more just prone to overthinking things

It wasn't necessarily referring to you.

I think you should probably rent a few pieces of equipment to get a feel for there capabilities. Especially on your terrain. Also, seek out neighbors with property. I find people are generally pretty helpful. Especially when they know you're a neighbor.

My Mahindra 1626 is pretty impressive on hills. Rear tires are filled. R4 tires. I have 28 acres in East Tennessee. Pretty similar terrain.

 

[hayden]

I have an L5740 doing very similar work, also in central Vermont. A few thoughts/comments....

I think the L6060 will do most of that you want. Maybe not the very best for every task, but capable of doing them. Over time you can decide whether to add other equipment to optimize certain operations.

I would NOT use a CTL for snow removal. Traction sucks on them on anythjing other than flat ground, and even then they are no match for a tractor with R1 tires and cleated chains. Get the chains, you will need them, especially when it gets icy. And not simple ladder chains, get the ones with cleats.

I recently switched to a front blower after 20 years with rear 3PH blowers. I love being able to operate facing forward. That said, I believe the Kubota front blower precludes use of the loader. For me that was a non-starter, so I got a hydraulic blower with a rear PTO power pack. It works well, but be careful about over sizing it. Mine pushes my 5740 to the limit power wise. A shaft driven front blower would be better in that respect, but to me not worth having to give up the loader for the winter. With a quick attach loader, I can switch between snow blower, bucket, forks, etc. in a minute or two.

Since original purchase in 2007 my rear tires have been loaded. Last summer I added a set of wheel weights. WOW what a difference. The tractor used to be a bit tippy with a heavy bucket load of crushed stone or other really heavy load. Not any more. Rock steady. It's also much more stable on steep hills, of which we have many.

Unless all your operation is all on packed, solid surface, get R1 tires. R4 tires pack with mud and snow too easily. Are you new to Vermont? If so welcome, but just wait for mud season. You will be stuck in about 2 seconds with R4 tires. R1 tires with chains and nothing will stop you.

Over time if you have a lot of daily loader work and have a solid packed road & yard surface, I could see adding a CTL for that work. But forget about taking it in the woods or doing snow removal on a steep driveway.

If you get an inclination to get a backhoe for the tractor, pause for a minute. If you can afford to get a mini excavator, do that instead. It won't tie up the back of your tractor, and a mini ex is MUCH more capable, much easier to maneuver, and much faster to work than a tractor BH. After three different tractor BH setups I finally learned that lesson.

 

[Torvy]

First off, congrats! For most here, 113 acres is not little. I've been through VT and cannot imagine tractor work on those slopes. It is beautiful, though.

My first inclination is that this is a multiple machine task, but it's not my money. My tendency is toward reducing cost and risk. That being said, you indicated money was not as big of a concern, so I would go back to multiple machines.

I have forest, but mine is plantation pines with rows like a giant crop (which it essentially is). For me, I need to clear underbrush and volunteer trees that compete with my crop (rather like giant weeds). I also live where temps rarely get to 0 and seldom drop below 32. Snow is rare, so a cab is not that necessary or helpful for me. In your case, I would have one machine definitely cabbed for winter use. The other would really depend on what you plan to do with the forest.

Imho, I would lean toward Sea2Summit's idea of a skid steer, but i would also want a tractor. If you plan on a conventional lawn, a mid-sized tractor would be gentler on the grass.

 

[jeff9366]

Most who own a compact track loader (CTL) would use the CTL for farm excavation work, in preference to a compact tractor equipped with an optional tractor backhoe.

 

[CobyRupert]

As others have noted: More weight is your friend. Weight is the ability to pull a load, horsepower is speed.
A heavier tractor is better, else filled tires and ballast is mandatory. 5000-6000 on tractor handing a 1000 lb bale is probably okay… on flat ground.

Besides looking at loader capacity, I’d also look for rims that allows tractor width to be adjusted.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I think best advice before anything is talking to neighbors, similar property. Dealer(s) close by to me would be very important. Renting first if possible sure sounds like a great idea. I went with Deere and very happy.
Several pieces of equipment if affordable to me is the best choice also.

 

[rScotty]

We have a small place now. But I've worked on some larger ones the past many years. And owned more than a few tractors.

I think one tractor is two much of a compromise for your plans.
You will probably end up with two - one needs to be handy for firewood, barn work, corrals, and general chores. It can be rather smallish, say a 25 to 35 hp HST with a littled loader and something on the 3pt for weight and balance. Hou are trying to keep this one small and easy to use. It will surprise you with what it can do in a 4 acre (4 acres!) garden. Just tilling will make it worth having. We call that the "chore tractor", and every place over 40 acres tends to have one. It should is new or fairly so and just as handy as a glove. Make it something that kids and wife can use. HST & 4wd of course.
In the winter the chore tractor can be found moving wood, wet straw, manure, snow, tools, and people.

If price is not an obstacle, some folks are moving to using the Bobcat "toolcat" side by sides with a loader on the front and either 3pt or dump box on the back. That sure does make a nice chore machine. Worth considering..... worth a look.

The other tractor is the heavier field tractor. Spend some time thinking on this one. Cab and 4wd of course. Might Check with your neighbors, because their are occasions when each uses the others' big machine.
This one can can lift a round bale or a downed draft horse... or steer or whatever. Plenty of power and weight for anything. Ours has a backhoe on the back, but can also mount a category 2 3pt if 3pt or PTO is needed.
This one needn't be new - the larger ones will outlast you and me - but it sure could be.

Of course when you are just getting started either one can do all the jobs, so it doesn't matter which comes first.

I'd avoid the CTL for now. You don't need it to start and will know when you do. And they do tear up the ground in a way that a lot of rural people find they don't car for.

Enjoy,
rScotty

 

[sadbox]

Unless all your operation is all on packed, solid surface, get R1 tires. R4 tires pack with mud and snow too easily. Are you new to Vermont? If so welcome, but just wait for mud season. You will be stuck in about 2 seconds with R4 tires. R1 tires with chains and nothing will stop you.

This makes a lot of sense, outside of the driveway it's all pasture or trails in the woods. Any feelings on r14? I'm curious if they'd do well for the mix of ag and dirt work.

I'd avoid the CTL for now. You don't need it to start and will know when you do. And they do tear up the ground in a way that a lot of rural people find they don't car for.

That makes sense to me, overall the CTL would mostly be working in/around the barn, so we're not tearing up too much. We're new to cattle at least in that part of the world, so the actual time on the pack, etc is something we'll have to figure out. The goal is obviously minimize time not in housing but VT winters disagree with that a little. The bonus is that if the tractor can work for the barn chores now, it'll give us a nice backup if the CTL ever has a sick day.

I think best advice before anything is talking to neighbors, similar property.

Absolutely, we're talking with some wonderfully friendly neighbors, and a few operations around the state who are already doing the type of setup we want. We've seen more and more folks swapping over from dairy to cattle operations up there, especially as climate change has been lengthening the pasture season.

 

[Wolfy]

I would get a good size tractor. Like an older Ford with a category 2 , 3 point hitch. Very easy to get parts and good solid tractors.And then either a compact telehandler or compact articulated loader. Both take SSQA implements and much more enjoyable than a skid steer that will bounce you to death. Raising a skid steer loader all the way up is very dangerous due to their tippyness.