Transmission differences on M models?

shibney · Sep 18, 2011

I've always had hydro tractors and now I have a case farmall 45 with a CVT. I like the tractor a lot. The cab is great, push button 4x4, it's a nice little tractor but I'm worried about service issues with the trans later down the road. So I'm looking at tractors again, Deere, Kubota, NH. After some research I think the L5740 is a great tractor for the money. But the M series isn't much more and while I don't need a bigger tractor, why not??

So now to my question and this shows how green I am, but other than the new tractors I've had I. Have only driven my dads old Massey 50.

What exactly is the difference in a syncro shuttle and a hydro shuttle?

slowzuki · Sep 18, 2011

Sync shuttle - depress clutch, move reverser to change direction. Don't have to come to an absolute complete stop while doing the shift but you should before letting the clutch back up. Usually a dry clutch on the Kubotas.

Hydro shuttle - going forward? Pull lever to reverse, now your going backward. Best to let off the revs to idle before shuttling and I've never used it in a higher gear, the stresses would be bad. It has wet clutches controled by that lever or the clutch pedal.

In practise, I tend to use the hydroshuttle like a sync shuttle using the clutch so it is not so aggressive changing direction. In 2wd the hydroshuttle tends to spin the rear tires a lot when shuttling doing loader work.

canoetrpr · Sep 19, 2011

shibney:

I'm in the exact same place as you deciding between a GL5740 and an M.

I operated them side by side at a dealer last weekend and it was a blast. The GL was just natural as I am used to a HST already. The M took some getting used to and I expect that a few hours of working with it and I'll be comfortable.

I can't honestly think of a good reason why one would go with a synchro shuttle when a hydraulic shuttle is available which does not require clutching to change directions. I think dry clutches might last longer - think someone mentioned that (might have been TripleR) to me. The dealer I am dealing with orders all of the Ms for his lot configured with the hydraulic shuttle.

TripleR · Sep 20, 2011

canoetrpr said:
shibney:

I'm in the exact same place as you deciding between a GL5740 and an M.

I operated them side by side at a dealer last weekend and it was a blast. The GL was just natural as I am used to a HST already. The M took some getting used to and I expect that a few hours of working with it and I'll be comfortable.

I can't honestly think of a good reason why one would go with a synchro shuttle when a hydraulic shuttle is available which does not require clutching to change directions. I think dry clutches might last longer - think someone mentioned that (might have been TripleR) to me. The dealer I am dealing with orders all of the Ms for his lot configured with the hydraulic shuttle.

Sorry for the intrusion, but I "think" it is just the opposite, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Here is one of several threads on this.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ostatic-transmission-v-hydraulic-shuttle.html

canoetrpr · Sep 20, 2011

That is even better then. Can't think of any good reason not to go with the hydraulic shuttle. If one is in the habit of clutching they can continue to with the wet clutch.

Any real advantage to clutching for changes in direction? Additionally do you need to clutch when changng gears?

5030 · Sep 20, 2011

Not speaking for a new unit (because mine are a few years old) but the M9 and the 105 both have hydraulic shuttle and both are graduated. That means that when engaging at a higher rpm, there is an oil pressure modulated valve that engages the clutch pack less abruptly and allows a somewhat smooth transition between forward and reverse and or stopped and forward or stopped and reverse.

On the hydraulic shuttle, the main clutch is controlled hydraulically as well. Thats why the clutch pedal is so light in feel and the main clutch is quite large and I believe ceramic pucks.

I always had HST tractors myself until I went to the higher powered units. I like HST for the convenience and control factor but I don't like the heat of operation or the power loss. It is an automatic transmission after all. The most efficient power transmission is through a gear train, not a fluid coupling.

KYDan · Sep 20, 2011

TripleR said:
Sorry for the intrusion, but I "think" it is just the opposite, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Here is one of several threads on this.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ostatic-transmission-v-hydraulic-shuttle.html

I just purchased the MX5100 with the HST moving up from a L2900 with the synchro shuttle and I will never return to the shuttle. I have loaders on both tractors. It has taken some getting used to the HST, but after 22 hours I think I have the hang of it. For FEL and box work there is no comparison, particularly with finishing work. Granted there is a huge power difference between the models, but even with that the HST is a far superior performer for ease of use. When I bought the 2900 in 1997 it was a quantum leap from the old geared tractors I was used to (Ford 2000 & 4000 with FEL). I eventually sold both of them and made do with less horsepower, but more effective HP as it was 4WD and both Fords were 2WD (and old). The MX does not have the amenities of the L series, but so far it has proven itself to be a solid performer that is very easy to use, and I like it much better on hills when mowing on rough ground. I don't have enough time to compare repair issues which were non-existant on the L2900, but even with that I still can confidently say that I will not return to a geared transmission. Convenience and ease of use alone would be enough reason. However, the effectiveness of use is the major factor.

TripleR · Sep 20, 2011

canoetrpr said:
That is even better then. Can't think of any good reason not to go with the hydraulic shuttle. If one is in the habit of clutching they can continue to with the wet clutch.

Any real advantage to clutching for changes in direction? Additionally do you need to clutch when changing gears?

No and yes.

slowzuki · Sep 20, 2011

Wet clutch is expected to live as long as the tractor. Dry clutch on a loader tractor usually means a new clutch every 1000 hours when used hard, 2500 hours if used gently. I've heard of people who barely use their loader getting to 4000 hours on a dry clutch but 1000-2500 is more common.

canoetrpr · Sep 20, 2011

5030 said:
....engages the clutch pack less abruptly and allows a somewhat smooth transition between forward and reverse and or stopped and forward or stopped and reverse.

I found during my test drive of the M7040 that the transition between forward and reverse and vice versa was extremely smooth as well. Obviously I never did this traveling at 10 MPH, nor is there reason to. I did not have to come to a complete stop though and I pretended to do loader work going forward into a pile or stabbing a bale and immediately going into reverse. It was surprising how smooth it was to me.