Troybilt Tine Holders - Help!

[Rockyroad]

This isn't about my tractor, but I need help on this and I figured that someone here has had this problem. I can't get the tine holders off the spindles on the gearbox on my Troybilt Horse. I bought the Horse in 1986, and I have never had them off. I took the bolts out of the ends of each tine holder, but they seem to be really stuck on there. I put a little heat on the holders with my O/A torch, but nothing would break free. I soaked the insides with PB Blaster overnight, but it didn't work. I hit with a hammer, but not too hard since I didn't want to break the housing. Anyone have this problem and can offer some advice?

 

[StanInCalif]

A gearpuller is best for this. Put it on, tighten, and smack the end of the puller with a hammer. Or, you might try this- Raise the depth gauge so that the tines are on the ground and have someone put his weight on the handlebars. Put the nut back on the shaft to protect the threads (but don't tighten), then hit the end of the shaft with a hammer. BTW- it is much better to hit it hard with a small hammer than to club it with a big hammer- you will shock it more and damage it less. Better yet is a plastic shot (dead blow) hammer.

 

[hogboy]

Wayne, I have been down this road a few times over the past 20 years. In all of my cases (one with the Pony and the other with the Horse model), the repair shop had to cut them off. In all of my cases it was to repair a transmission seal leak. At that point I also had the heavy duty tines put on. Stan's suggestion is definitely worth a try. Good luck with it.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I used an air hammer with a long punch for a bit on mine. Was able to get in behind the holders, find a solid place and drive them out. My Horse has the cast iron tine holders. Yours may have the newer steel holders so I don't know if it would work with them. Good Luck... Dave.

 

[Rockyroad]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Yes, I have a bad oil leak on the rear end of the Horse. I believe the tine holders are cast iron (they look like it), and those little devils are frozen right on. I may have to cut them off with my O/A torch as a last resort. I know heat has not freed them, nor has banging. I started to try to pry them apart by putting a bottle hydraulic jack between the tine gangs. However, before I went very far, I started to consider how far they would fly if they broke loose suddenly. So I have to consider a way of restraining both ends so they can't go flying across the barn or possibly injure me.

I am going to try my air hammer as suggested if the bottle jack idea does not work. Then I will try all the other suggestions if that does not work. As a last resort I will cut them off with my torch. All this to replace the seals and gasket on the bolt side of the transmission case.

Seems like a common problem. If I have to cut the holders off, then I will obviously have to buy new holders in addition to new tines (all worn out), as well as seals, bearings, shaft, and gasket.

Anyone else with war stories about getting the tine holders off please respond.

Is Troybilt still in business?

 

[TerryinMD]

Unfortunately, Troy Manufacturing went under and that wonderful MTD company bought out the rest of the assets..... you know the rest of the story.

You can still get parts from MTD. I believe that a TroyBuilt URL still exists.

Good luck!!

Terry

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I have an older 1973 ? Horse model with the cast iron tine holders. The seals leak a bit, but after hearing all of this I think they can just leak as long as it is not too bad /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Rockyroad]

Slowrev-

That's what I did. It started leaking a few years ago. At first, it wasn't too bad. Just a oil spot on my shop floor. Then a bigger spot, etc. etc, until now if I put rear end oil in, it is all drained out by next morning. I don't know if it is leading at the seals as much as leaking out the gasked where the side plate bolts on. What started out as a simple job has become complicated all of a sudden.

Found this place on the net called Kelleys that stocks lots of parts for the Troybilts. I have been trying to call them for the last couple of days, but they just have a message up on their answering machine.

I also found the new Troy site under MTD after someone else said on the post that MTD had bought them out. I don't know what this whole thing is going to cost after the smoke clears. Then I can start the same process with my Kuhn rototiller that is on the back of my JD 750 which is also leaking oil.

This will be my year of the oil seals.

 

[hogboy]

Last year there was a major problem getting parts for these machines due to the MTD buyout. I had to call several shops before I was able to locate a tine holder (and I got their LAST ONE.) Hopefully by now their accounting problems have been resolved between the parts suppliers and replacement parts will be more readily available. My Horse was sitting in the shop for 4 months before I could locate a tine holder. I have heard good reports about the BCS machine and once I can save up enough cash will give that one a try next.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rockyroad,
I did have a similiar problem replacing the axle seals on my Horse several years ago. I drove the axle roll pins out and could not get the hubs off. Finally wound up weldint 7/8 " nuts on the hubs and screwing a long bolt in there to push the hubs off of the axles, worked pretty well.

 

[Rockyroad]

StanInCalif - Thanks for the solution to my problem! I did exactly what you suggested, and it worked! I put the long bolt back in the tine holder that screws into the shaft coming out of the gear case. I didn't tighten it all the way, but left it backed out about six or seven turns. I then tipped the rear end assembly up on its side so I could put the end of the other tine holder firmly on a block of steel. I gave the end of the big bolt a few good raps with a big ball peen hammer and a few seconds later my problem was solved. I reversed the process and took the tine holder off the other side.

I learned a great trick for feeeing things, so thanks again for the advice and solution to my problem!

The side plate almost fell off after I got the tine holders off. The bolts holding it on to the casing were all loose, and the gasket was all but gone. That's why it was leaking so bad. The gears look OK, but the shaft is grooved around the oil seals. I will probably replace the shaft, bearings, and seals and gaskets now that I have it this far apart.

Thanks to everyone who responded. That is what is so great about TBN. You can ask for some advice before you go out and do something totally stupid.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Glad you got the problem solved...

Dave.

 

[Rockyroad]

Riverv- Your trick was going to be next on my list. Reason I didn't do it was I don't have the right end to put into the impact hammer that would work. I am going to look for something longer than the short one I have next time I'm in the tool supply place.

Good luck with your Troybilt.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Wayne, I had to completely rebuild my transmission a few years ago. Bearing went bad in the back and shaft chewed up the gears. Pretty much rebuilt the whole transmission front and back. Learned a few new swear words in the process.

Troy was still in business but going under at the time and they ducked out of their so called "lifetime warranty". Claimed that due to the age of my machine additional damage caused by bearing failure was not a defect in the shaft or gears. Told me that bearings are normal wear items in an old machine... So much for the lifetime warranty, I got tired of arguing with them

Bought my machine when I was in college in the 70's. It's done at least a 100'x100' garden every year. Gheesh... Am I getting old....

Dave....

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Dave, about the same age as me. Getting older sure beats the only alternative /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Rockyroad]

Just an update. I called this place called Kelly's that I found on the net. They still have some parts, but they say their inventory is getting low. I was able to order a new set of forged tines, as well as the shaft, bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. The whole mess set me back about $200.

According to the guy who I talked to there, MTD is sending customers to him when they are looking for parts! He is unsure if MTD is ever going to manufacture parts again for the tillers.

MTD has a number to order parts for the tillers, but I have not called them to find out what the story is.

Sounds like our machines are going to reach a point where parts will no longer be available and we will have to junk them. Too bad since they are such great machines. I have a MTD riding lawn mower that I bought at WalMart, so I know all about MTD.

I bought my Horse in 1986 and it has been great. This is the first time I have had to repair it. My land is very rocky (hence my handle), so it has not had an easy life.

Last thing - according to the guy at Kelly's, the tine holders are no longer available. So if yours get stuck on, DON'T cut them off! (Glad I didn't).

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rockyroad, Thanks for the parts situation update. I am wondering if the parts situation only affects the older machines with the solid rear end and not the newer machines with the pto style rear.

Last spring a repair shop here had an old horse selling for under $300.00. The only thing I could find wrong with it was the rear seals were leaking. Couldn't figure out why he didn't just replace the seals and jack up the selling price. Almost bought it for a spare. Now I kind of wish I did.

Dave...

 

[Rockyroad]

RiverV - MTD may have a better supply of parts for the more recent machines. I have to call them next week to see what the story is.

As far as oil seals are concerned, I find it hard to believe that the oil seals for Troybilts are a special seal made especially for Troy machines. I may be wrong, but it seems that they would use a stock oil seal made by some manufacturere somewhere. Problem is, how to figure out what they are in a parts catalog. Probably there are some mechanics out there who could tell me whether I'm right or wrong. Same thing with bearings. There are probably stock size bearings that can be purchased that will fit. Again, I wouldn't know how to begin to find the right part number from a manufacturer, but it seems unbelieveable that Troy would have special ball bearings made for a fairly limited run of machines. If the main wear items are oil seals and ball bearings, then does anyone know if they are available from other sources?

Anyways, I love my Troybilt and I will keep it going until it becomes unrepairable, at which time I might have to look at another brand. Someone else on the post suggested Mainline.

 

[StanInCalif]

Correct- When I rebuilt mine, I bought all the seals, bearings, and races at the local auto parts store. They are standard auotomotive parts and have numbers on them. I always take the old parts to the store to confirm matchup. Got the belts there,too.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The seals and bearings will be standard sizes made by some mfg. You can check with most industrial motion vendors and they can usually tell you exactly what size you need. If the shaft is scored you can buy a product called speedy sleeve that presses over the damaged area and gives the seals a new surface to ride on. They're pretty inexpensive as well.