Trying to decide... to purchase or plant alfalfa/orchard grass hay for horses

[powerscol]

with the kuhns you dont drag hay around. The accumulator drops the bundle, then you pick it up with the grapple. Even without the accumulator I gather with the grapple and even then there is very little dragging - just when you swing in to grab the next bale. I pick up and move to the next bale, then set down and gather, pick up and go to the next one. However I have seen the ones your are referring too and did not like the idea of dragging across the field either.

 

[Dadnatron]

So, I believe I am beginning to understand how haying is done (to a small degree) in the Midwest/South.

But, I have a couple other questions.

When cutting alfalfa, it is necessary to condition it given the issues with sunbleaching and potential rain. So we condition it to speed up the process of drying in an effort to get it out of the field in optimal shape. I understand this part. The part which is different here, compared to SW Colorado is that we swathed/cut it directly into windrows and left it until it was dry. Given the climate, this did not take long at all. IF it happened to rain, we would turn windrows with a wheel rake, then bale it.

But here (KY) alfalfa is cut and conditioned and left 'scattered' across the field in an effort to help it dry faster. If all goes well and no rain, it is then raked and baled quickly? Here is the questions which I think I understand but want to insure.
- Alfalfa isn't tedded due to leaf loss. Is that correct?
- Alfalfa mixed with orchard grass tends to 'dry' faster because grass drys faster and therefore the % moisture will be less when baled??
- Grass hay can be tedded as much as necessary to dry it faster... without loss of quality? Faster drying means better quality and grass isn't damaged with a tedder?
- Alfalfa windrows can be turned if necessary with less leaf loss. Should rain fall on the windrows?

I'm trying to understand how things are done here.

Also... I see people talking about how great a rotary rake is compared to wheel and line rakes. What is it about a rotary rake that is better?

 

[rectifier]

I rake alfalfa all the time with a side-delivery rake. If you rake while the hay is still fresh and the dew is on it, you will not lose a ton of leaf matter. Even here in SK I like to cut and leave wide windrows, then rake the next day or the day after. Dries faster and picks up more evenly.

I'm not a fan of wheel rakes. They kick up rocks and they are hard on the hay. Their only advantage is width and travel speed.
Rotary rakes are as good as a side delivery but more versatile - they can rake in, rake out, or ted. They are also wider than side-deliveries - modern rotaries can have a ton of rotors and get ridiculously wide.

 

[Dadnatron]

I made the jump and purchased a Land Pride NTS2511 for planting.

I've spoken with several people who own them and they really like them. They are a Brillion type system, however the front roller is smooth with 2" spikes. The front roller is essentially cut in half, making 2 shorter rollers (overlap at center) which can be angled up to 18deg. This is supposed to 'pre-till' the ground allowing the prepping followed by the seed. The larger the angle, the more aggressive the 'till'.

I just pulled it home this afternoon, and I've been working on calibrating.

I'm thinking about making a YouTube video, given there is nothing out there, at least that I've found. But I don't know... I have less time than I'd like to get the seed in the ground, and Hurricane Harvey isn't going to help me out this week and coming weeKend it seems.

But, I will definitely have some experience in how it works and will keep you all informed as to how it all goes.

20ac Alfalfa/orchard mix and 10ac straight Timothy. And 40ac pasture mix Bluegrass/Orchard in the next couple weeks.

 

[Phillip w]

I believe if it were me, I'd put half in alfalfa and half in something like brome. Sometimes it is hard to get a good stand of alfalfa going. And while you get multiple cuttings of alfalfa, the quality of hay goes down with each cutting. Alfalfa also as summer wears on get more and more stemmy with each cutting. You also have a narrow window after you cut it to turn it and get it in the bale. If it is to green the hay will mold and build heat inside the bale. If you turn and bale it after it gets to dry, you loose a lot of leaves. If you put half of it in brome or something similar it is not quite as tricky. When you feed You horses brome put some mineral and protein blocks out to off set the nutritional content of the hay. As you expand and need more pasture, you can pasture the brome and still have the alfalfa for hay. I got to tell that brome you need to fertilize the day lights every year about the first part of March.

 

[Murphys Law Farmer]

I started haying just a few years ago. Previously I used other people to do the haying (cut, ted, rake, bale). The deal was a 50/50 split AND help me get mine stacked up in the hay mow (on site). That was for 16-17 acres of neglected grass and plenty of weeds. Well, that was the plan anyway. Even though the balers were getting much the same hay elsewhere, they probably had larger fields, their own fields, families' fields, free fields, and possibly paying ones to do first. I always seemed to be LAST. So, there was never more than one cutting and it usually wasn't until late August or September, if at all. Some years they never showed up. By then the hay was pretty much just indigestible fiber. And the weeds have consequently gone crazy. Now add to that a new highly invasive Pale Swallowwort that is taking over and crowding out everything else. So far it's control has been a losing battle. Cutting just once or twice a year makes it spread underground faster. It's slow to come up in the Spring so you can't get an early start on the field, or frost seed. And it can't absorb enough herbicides until it is about to flower (when the hay should be cut), and the "crop" is too thick for the spray to penetrate. And of course, there is now an unending supply of seeds waiting to come up. So I have had to acquire my own equipment, learn to run and fix it.

In NY it takes 3 nice days to make hay. It can get hot here but the humidity is the killer. Day 1-cut and ted, Day 2-ted again (and that's for thin grass/weeds), Day 3-rake and bale. I have tried raking into windrows the day before, but the dew won't dry and I just have to re-ted and wait.

Since I have been on the farm, the weather each year has been weirder than I ever remember. We get dumped on with 3 feet of snow in late March, so no frost seeding, can't get into the field. We've had summer droughts, so grazing after first cut was a bust. This year Spring rains finally ended just a week ago. We were so wet I didn't dare take any real equipment into the field. I barely got in and out with a 20hp with turf tires and was still leaving big ruts. My neighbors who tried to start haying lost the hay due to rain or spent the day trying to get the tractor back out.

And then you get to the equipment. My funds only allowed for auctioned used pieces. They are all there for a reason, it's up to you to figure out why.
I am using a NHTN75DA (boy do I love having a cab with heat/AC); Gehl 2170 sickle mower/conditioner (it works well but does have some joints that won't take grease), NH254 Rake/Tedder (jack of both trades, master of none, but good enough when the rake failed. Needs regular cam follower and occasional whole arm replacement--my field was not well prepared at last till, plus lots of rocks); side rake - unidentifiable make/model (works, needs regular tine replacement); JD348 wire baler (avoid this model, chronic problems); Hay/grain elevator (on my 2nd--chains are expensive, with 3rd motor); assorted landscape trailers instead of hay racks; I also use the JD4100 to pull the side rake. It has a hard time on the rolling hills, but is more nimble than a larger tractor. I could really use more tractors, it's a pain to stop, drop and change equipment. Plus, if I actually had some help it would be nice to be able to put them to work.

Most farmers in this area are going to round bales for themselves. It's hard to find anyone willing to help hay when it involves hand pick-up, unloading, and re-stacking. I could never use the kicker on my baler, it screws up too often. But my only storage is up in the mow, so it has to be small squares. I wish I had bought a string baler instead of wire.

 

[Phillip w]

I started haying just a few years ago. Previously I used other people to do the haying (cut, ted, rake, bale). The deal was a 50/50 split AND help me get mine stacked up in the hay mow (on site). That was for 16-17 acres of neglected grass and plenty of weeds. Well, that was the plan anyway. Even though the balers were getting much the same hay elsewhere, they probably had larger fields, their own fields, families' fields, free fields, and possibly paying ones to do first. I always seemed to be LAST. So, there was never more than one cutting and it usually wasn't until late August or September, if at all. Some years they never showed up. By then the hay was pretty much just indigestible fiber. And the weeds have consequently gone crazy. Now add to that a new highly invasive Pale Swallowwort that is taking over and crowding out everything else. So far it's control has been a losing battle. Cutting just once or twice a year makes it spread underground faster. It's slow to come up in the Spring so you can't get an early start on the field, or frost seed. And it can't absorb enough herbicides until it is about to flower (when the hay should be cut), and the "crop" is too thick for the spray to penetrate. And of course, there is now an unending supply of seeds waiting to come up. So I have had to acquire my own equipment, learn to run and fix it.

In NY it takes 3 nice days to make hay. It can get hot here but the humidity is the killer. Day 1-cut and ted, Day 2-ted again (and that's for thin grass/weeds), Day 3-rake and bale. I have tried raking into windrows the day before, but the dew won't dry and I just have to re-ted and wait.

Since I have been on the farm, the weather each year has been weirder than I ever remember. We get dumped on with 3 feet of snow in late March, so no frost seeding, can't get into the field. We've had summer droughts, so grazing after first cut was a bust. This year Spring rains finally ended just a week ago. We were so wet I didn't dare take any real equipment into the field. I barely got in and out with a 20hp with turf tires and was still leaving big ruts. My neighbors who tried to start haying lost the hay due to rain or spent the day trying to get the tractor back out.

And then you get to the equipment. My funds only allowed for auctioned used pieces. They are all there for a reason, it's up to you to figure out why.
I am using a NHTN75DA (boy do I love having a cab with heat/AC); Gehl 2170 sickle mower/conditioner (it works well but does have some joints that won't take grease), NH254 Rake/Tedder (jack of both trades, master of none, but good enough when the rake failed. Needs regular cam follower and occasional whole arm replacement--my field was not well prepared at last till, plus lots of rocks); side rake - unidentifiable make/model (works, needs regular tine replacement); JD348 wire baler (avoid this model, chronic problems); Hay/grain elevator (on my 2nd--chains are expensive, with 3rd motor); assorted landscape trailers instead of hay racks; I also use the JD4100 to pull the side rake. It has a hard time on the rolling hills, but is more nimble than a larger tractor. I could really use more tractors, it's a pain to stop, drop and change equipment. Plus, if I actually had some help it would be nice to be able to put them to work.

Most farmers in this area are going to round bales for themselves. It's hard to find anyone willing to help hay when it involves hand pick-up, unloading, and re-stacking. I could never use the kicker on my baler, it screws up too often. But my only storage is up in the mow, so it has to be small squares. I wish I had bought a string baler instead of wire.

Just a few things here. If you are having issues with a grease zerk/fitting taking grease sometimes you can "poke" them with a piece of thin wire or simply replace and this usually solve the problem. On to you equipment. If your rake is red, it may be an ih or massey ferguson. If it is old and rusty it may be a new idea. Case and Ford made takes. I think case rakes where red and yellow. It should have a plate with make and serial number on it some where. You 4100 is a nice light utility tractor that tends to be reliable. You baler, let me guess knitter issues??? I have been around John Deere, new Holland, and ih balers. All have been good balers, but age and wear catch up to them and the knotters get cantankerous. A lot of time they need shimmed, replace a "duck bill" are two common issues. If you do very much to one don't be afraid to ask for help. Knotters can be very touchy. Hope some of this helps.

 

[Murphys Law Farmer]

Just a few things here. If you are having issues with a grease zerk/fitting taking grease sometimes you can "poke" them with a piece of thin wire or simply replace and this usually solve the problem.
-----Unfortunately, replacement didn't work. Need to try again.

On to you equipment. If your rake is red, it may be an ih or massey ferguson. If it is old and rusty it may be a new idea. Case and Ford made takes. I think case rakes where red and yellow. It should have a plate with make and serial number on it some where.
------My rake is every color of the rainbow depending on which paint layer you are looking at. No plate left. Out of curiosity, do you think you could ID it from a photo? Don't know if I can add photos here.

You 4100 is a nice light utility tractor that tends to be reliable.
-----Mostly normal problems with an auction machine. But it did try to start on fire (electrical) once while I was using it. Fortunately, I was close to home and quickly disconnected the battery. The local JD dealer lost a building a few years ago because one (don't know which model) inside the shop overnight did the same thing. Yes, it is small enough to get into tight spaces. Useful for brush work, yard mowing, garden tilling, spraying with a lousy little TSC unit, etc. Really wish the ROPS could fold. I push it hard and it's a strain for it sometimes--getting the raking done, pulling a full spreader, even using the belly mower. The 3 point is not really standard size so it is hard getting things attached when it is a stretch. And the draw bar is too low for most jacks. Wish it was a step up. Oh and one control for belly lift and 3 point lift. Didn't think about that and should have taken all the belly linkage parts off when using the brush hog--they drop when I put the brush hog down, so I ripped them off on a stump I didn't know was there.

You baler, let me guess knitter issues??? I have been around John Deere, new Holland, and ih balers. All have been good balers, but age and wear catch up to them and the knotters get cantankerous. A lot of time they need shimmed, replace a "duck bill" are two common issues. If you do very much to one don't be afraid to ask for help. Knotters can be very touchy. Hope some of this helps.

-----JD348 baler is wire. I have had some help on here. Made improvements, turned hooks back a few notches to ease letting go of the twisted wire. Not 100% and still tends to get a build-up of wire on the hooks--this machine is why cattle get hardware disease. But at least now it tends to tie the next bale after a broken one rather than needing to re-thread. Also the twisted ends tend to grab the wire on the next bale. Improved one thing and now it is back to having length measuring problems. 5' bales are no fun to hand load on a trailer or send up the elevator. All I did different the last field was tighten the side bale chamber doors a little because the previous round the bales were kind of loose. I have replaced the hooks and wire holders/cutters, and measuring arm and roller, and cutting edge on the plunger. But parts wear too fast--it's only doing 16-20 acres a year. Sometimes it messes up as many bales as it makes. Did one field last year one bale at a time--having to unwrap the wire by hand off the hooks. That was a looong day. Thank you to whoever on here gave me the tip for turning back the hooks (beyond specs). I haven't been able to find that old post.

They only advantage to a wire baler is that the mice don't chew up the wire like they do string. And I can use an otherwise useless tangled box of wire for quick fence patches. I have no experience with a string baler and knotting unit. Sigh, I thought a wire system would be simpler and less prone to problems.

 

[Phillip w]

Boy.my experience with a wire baler is really limited. String tie balers I have quite a bit of experience "fiddling " with them especially John Deere and new Holland balers. If you try and change balers, I stay with John Deere or new Holland. They seem to have the best reputation and parts availability. Good luck with everything.