TS354C Front End

[BryEllis]

I made a disturbing discovery today on my new (to me) 2003 TS354C Tractor. It had 50 hours on it when o purchased it from a private individual.

I noticed some fluid leaking from between the Diferential Carrier Refer to the atttached diagram - Front Supporting Shaft? (Item 4) and Front Drive Axle Housing (Item 10). On closer examination I discovered that the bolts were loose.

I figured, No problem, just tighten them up. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Unfortunatly when i tried to tighten them, I discovered that several of them were striped out. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Ok I figured just tap them out over size or helicoil them.

But tonight I got to thinking... Maybe this is symptomatic of something worse... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif tomorrow I plan to drain out the fluid and look for metal in the oil... I will post more as i go.

Has anyone else run into this type of problem?

Anybody have front end parts/ front axle for this tractor?

Thanks!
...Bryan

 

[BryEllis]

Attached is the diagram I scanned in from my manual

 

[BryEllis]

One last try to attach the diagram...

 

[BryEllis]

Now that I look at this diagram again it is not item 4 but rather item 41 - Front Bevel Gear Bearing Seat joint with the Front Drive Axle housing that is leaking. The bolt that is striped out is Item 40 (Bolt M10x35).
Does anyone know if there is enough metal in the Front Drive Axle Housing to allow me to drill and tap for M12x35's ?

 

[bluechip]

I think there is plenty of room to install helicoils, not sure about drilling and tapping to 12mm, but you might also see how deep the holes are drilled and tapped and perhaps you can just use longer 10mm bolts. So long as you get good threads for at least 10mm you should be fine.

I'm Courious if it is upper or lower bolts that are stripped? This is the first front axle problem on a TS I have heard of and would like to know what happened. I have differentials, and outer drives in stock, but not the axle casting itself
Could be it was leaking and prior owner tried to tighten too much to stop. Some people just don't undertand that Cast iron is not the same strength as steel.

 

[BryEllis]

Yes, I believe that the previous owner may have over tightened them. I bought a 10mm tap and 40mm long grade 8 bolts. I noticed that the very bottom bolt (the only one actually striped out) I took out was only 30mm but the parts list specs 35 mm. I ran in the tap and the new bolt seems to be holding well...

I had to tighten up all of the bolts including the top. They had backed out around 3/16”! Tomorrow I am going to purchase some locktite and apply it to each of them. Is there some sealant I can apply to assist with the seal in lew of a breakdown for seal replacement?

I went to drain the oil and discovered that there was no oil /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I flushed out the axle with diesel fuel the first time l got one sliver, less than 1/4", triangle of metal and about 1/8 of a teaspoon of very fine (less than grain of sand size powder) I know it is metal because the sediment moves in the bottom of a plastic butter tub when I passed a magnet under it.

I am currently on the third try and it is looking like one or two more flushes will probably finish the job. What do folks do with the left over diesel fuel from this process?

While I was at it I flushed out the outer drive housings these came out perfectly clean - no metal, yes!

I used the loader to lift the front end and tested the differential and spider gears... there seems to be a bit of play... with the 4wd engaged I can turn either tire about 4" on the outside before the slack is taken up and the other tire moves. Not sure how much is normal but given that this is both outer drives, the spider, differential and drive shaft this seems acceptable to me.

There are no abnormal clunks or binding that I noticed when moving the wheels both with the 4wd engaged to test the spider and disengaged and turning them together to test the ring and pinion.

I imagine that running it dry like that I have effectively shortened the life of the differential some but I think I will try it for a while and see how it holds up. Is there any risk to this?

Replacing that seal looks like could be a 2 day (16 hour job) for me. Good project for next winter... Better get that wood stove hooked up in the garage and finish the insulation /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif funny how these projects seem to take on a life of their own. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JINMA224XR]

<font color="blue"> Is there some sealant I can apply to assist with the seal in lew of a breakdown for seal replacement?
What do folks do with the left over diesel fuel from this process?
</font>

Hey BryEllis,

When it comes to a sealant for binding metal parts together to keep oil contained, I use a product that Yamaha Motorcycle, puts out and is widely known among Motorcycle Mechanics. It is called "Yama Bond", and you can get it at Yamaha.

I use any left over diesel fuel to treat the boards on my utility trailer.

I had very little oil in my creeper gear reservoir, and used that excuse to use the thickest Gear oil that I could get by with for the temperature range in my Area. I am on the Gulf Coast where the temps are a tinsy bit on the warm side. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I went from 80w90 gear oil to 85w140 gear oil that I got at WalMarts, and put it in the tranmission and the front drive. I also am using the thicker oil to try and prevent leaks. So far so good. I've been using it for about 40 hours now and it is not foaming and the transmission seems to shift a little bit smoother also. Some people are also adding lucas additive in their transmissions and front drive to try and control leaks. So far I haven't had to use the Lucas yet.

Get Your Tractors Running &
Have a nice day,
Joe /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[BryEllis]

Thanks for the advise, Just knowing you guys are out there helps me to feel confident to deal with anything that comes up. Actually it is refreshing to see how simple and sturdy these tractors are constructed. (Especially compared to modern cars with thier computers and polution control stuff)

Tonight I removed all but one of the bolts and backed that one out which opened up the joint about 3/16" inch again... I used alchohol and paper towels to remove the majority of the oil from around the joint then used carb cleaner spray to remove the remaining oil deeper in the joint.

I cleaned and de-greased all of the bolts and replaced all but two of the 30 mm bolts with longer ones,

I then applied a bead of permatex high tourque gasket sealer the grey one (cause thats what they had at the local farm supply 5 mins down the road.) using a clean putty knife I worked it into the joint.

I then applied a bit of red Locktite to the tipe of each bolt and tightened them up. all pretty easy except the very top bolt hich i had to perform a hodini act to get into the hole as the side frame and radiotor / engine limit access. Of course i got the Permatex all over my hands in the process... Finaly got the bolt started and using a 16mm open end box wrench began the slow process of tightening it up.

The amout of rotation that I was able to obtain required me to use a trick my dad taught me and flip the wrench over each time. Of course I could only move it with two fingers. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I looked in to see how i was progressing and discovered that the lock washer had fallen off /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif another twenty minutes to back it out and clean it up and get it re-installed.

Long story short(er) It took me about ten minutes to get all but one bolt installed and perhaps two hours to install the top one. Good thing I am a stuborn person. (See this can be a good thing) let her set for an hour and filled up the outer drive units with new penzoil 80w90 non foaming gear oil (not the HP).

Checked out the free play and noise with the gear oil and it feels real tight also the front end now rolls super smothly /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I am feeling more confident now that there has been no permanite damage and the front end should provide many hours of reliable service.

While i had the gear oil out i figured I would drain and flush the transmision... to my horror I discoverd what I believe is the original chinese "Oil" is still in there or perhaps it is desiel fuel it certianly is not gear oil! The tractor only has 83 hours on it now so it probably is ok.

Gues this project is going to require another day /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Ah well more "cave time" sure glad I put those 8' doors and 10' ceiling in my pole barn garage.

Bryan from the heart of the Fingerlakes in Central NY.

 

[BryEllis]

Word of advice... Make sure the back wheels are doing the work when using a front-end loader on a TS354c I was pushing into some clay near my house foundation, tipped the bucket up and drove forward when i heard a loud "Snap" disassembly revealed that I had broken the long axle in the main housing. I have the front end out and am in the process of replacing the axle. Figured this is a good time to insert the helicoils around the differential too. Only snag right now is how to pull the axles (and out board bearing)... think I need a slide hammer with a bolt that fits the threads in the end of the axle.