TT45A scare!

[fishrman]

I just wanted to share the following that I just wrote to an email address I found for New Holland. Might not be the right address but hopefully it will get to the right place. If anyone has a email for corporate office, I think this is where it needs to go:
To whom it may concern,
I am not sure who to write. This is one of the few email addresses I found.
I have a 2009 TT45A that I bought new with approx. 170 hours on it.
I was mowing with a brush cutter yesterday and turned around at the top of a hill to head back down. I must have hit 4th gear instead of a lower gear as the machine just shot down the hill. I immediately pushed in the clutch pedal and hit the brakes but the machine kept going down the hill into brush. I received several cut over both arms in the brush as I proceed to hang on and try to take control of the tractor. My right eye also received a laceration on the eye lid and brow. The machine stopped after traveling about 60 feet into brush with thistles and thorns on them. I got the machine shut off and after I got my wits back together I looked at the machine and found the clutch pedal had jumped around the peg that is suppose to stop the clutch from going further and was lodged underneath the stop so that the clutch was not usable at all. In other words, there was no way to get it into gear as the clutch was fully engaged and would not come back up because it was behind the clutch stop! This is something that could happen to anyone and I was lucky I wasn't hurt worse than I was. I am not sure if you have any ideas of how to prevent this from happening in the future but something needs to be done as this is not anything I would wish to happen to anyone else. I now am a little fearful of pushing on the clutch pedal and having it work properly especially on a hill.
If this wasn't sent to the proper address then please forward it on to the proper one or let me know who I need to contact.
Thank you for your understanding and help. I am thinking right now I should probably think about getting a hydrostatic drive model.
Thanks for your help.
Sincerely,

 

[fishrman]

Any ideas who to write on this event as I have not got a reply yet. It just should not do what it did, in my opinion! Thanks!

 

[aczlan]

Picture of the peg that the clutch pedal jumped around?

Aaron Z

 

[fishrman]

Hopefully this will give you the picture.

 

[Bladehauler]

Sounds like it's time to adjust those brakes too !

 

[fishrman]

You may be right about the brakes! If it is sliding with the wheels not turning though, I am not sure adjusting them is going to do much good.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

This sounds more like operator error then tractor fault. I'm going to guess when you panicked you pushed the clutch in as hard as you can and forced it into the position you described while at the same time pressing the brakes as hard as you could trying to stop. Why were you changing gears at the top of the hill and this tractor isn't easy to mix up the gear with. 1st and 4th are opposite corners.

My view is you have a 2wd tractor (I have a 2wd Farmall 45A which is basically the red version of yours) hooked to a heavy 3pt attachment on a hill. Your tractor is light and the 2wd front axle does nothing to help you on a hill. You should have been in a very low gear and kept the mower all the way down at all times working in this situation. Also, if your going to continuing using this setup on your hills you should invest in some front weights as it will help you keep the front planted better (helps a lot with turning while hooked to a rotary cutter).

I personally really like my 45A but I know how easy it is to lose control of a small 2wd tractor. You need to be careful at all times on hills but even more so with a 2wd tractor. A fwa tractor will help you will the added weight of the heavier axle, added pulling traction and added brake ability while in FWA mode as then the front wheels will also lock when the brakes are applied. My Kubota engages the fwa anytime you press the brake pedal so that the front axle helps with stopping the tractor. Good luck to you and don't be too hard on the tractor as I don't see anywhere in your description where this was the tractors fault. If the clutch failed at the top of the hill you would have known it and been able to stop before going down the hill. Just be happy you survived this lesson and learn from it.

 

[fishrman]

This sounds more like operator error then tractor fault. I'm going to guess when you panicked you pushed the clutch in as hard as you can and forced it into the position you described while at the same time pressing the brakes as hard as you could trying to stop. Why were you changing gears at the top of the hill and this tractor isn't easy to mix up the gear with. 1st and 4th are opposite corners.

My view is you have a 2wd tractor (I have a 2wd Farmall 45A which is basically the red version of yours) hooked to a heavy 3pt attachment on a hill. Your tractor is light and the 2wd front axle does nothing to help you on a hill. You should have been in a very low gear and kept the mower all the way down at all times working in this situation. Also, if your going to continuing using this setup on your hills you should invest in some front weights as it will help you keep the front planted better (helps a lot with turning while hooked to a rotary cutter).

I personally really like my 45A but I know how easy it is to lose control of a small 2wd tractor. You need to be careful at all times on hills but even more so with a 2wd tractor. A fwa tractor will help you will the added weight of the heavier axle, added pulling traction and added brake ability while in FWA mode as then the front wheels will also lock when the brakes are applied. My Kubota engages the fwa anytime you press the brake pedal so that the front axle helps with stopping the tractor. Good luck to you and don't be too hard on the tractor as I don't see anywhere in your description where this was the tractors fault. If the clutch failed at the top of the hill you would have known it and been able to stop before going down the hill. Just be happy you survived this lesson and learn from it.

I can't disagree with anything you said but why not have a better design than that for the clutch pedal? There would be no way for this to happen if they would design it so the clutch pedal hit the floor instead of a stop peg!
Also, my mower was in the lowered position as I was mowing.
I was changing gears because I had gone up the hill on a path and then had to back up to go back down the hill. It was then that I went from reverse to 4th, I think! In hind site, I was probably going for 2nd instead of 4th but either way, that was "operator error"!
And, I am very thankful as it could have been much worse.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

Robert form ny, Please explain the (FWA will engage when brakes are applied) part of you post, it's early and I've only had pot of coffee, little grogy.

 

[MoKelly]

Wow. Glad you are OK. My guess is the Corporate folks don't want anything to do with your e:Mail (they need to pretend they never received it) as it could indicate a liability issue for them if in fact there is a design flaw. Last thing they want is this issue to become a problem and have evidence someone pointed it out early.

MoKelly

 

[k0ua]

Yes the clutch pedal should not have gotten stuck behind the stop peg, but that is not what cause your accident. You should be able to repair/redesign the peg fairly easily.

Why you pushed in the clutch I assume was just a reaction to losing control of the tractor. I believe you stomped that clutch as hard as you could, and you stomped the brakes hard too, and of course you did not stop. Reason you did not stop is because your rear wheels were sliding and you could never regain any traction. Two wheel drive tractors on steep hills are bad news to start with.

A four wheel drive tractor whether Hydrostatic or Gear will offer braking from the contact patch of the front wheels, and when you are going downhill head first much of the tractors weight is on the front wheels, and less on the rear wheels, this causes a loss of traction on the rear wheels which can start a slide of the rear wheels. In a 4wd tractor you have the additional contact patch of the front wheels, holding you back in engine compression braking and also when you step on the rear service brakes you also slow down and brake with the front wheels/tires as they are mechanically coupled.

If you are going to insist on mowing this steep slope with your 2wd tractor you could back down the hill, and it would be safer as it would put more weight on the rears and probably maintain the traction.. But a 4wd tractor is safer on hills, and in my opinion a Hydrostatic transmission is also safer as there is less chance of operator error in missing a gear when making gear swaps.

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

Robert form ny, Please explain the (FWA will engage when brakes are applied) part of you post, it's early and I've only had pot of coffee, little grogy.

 

[aczlan]

Robert form ny, Please explain the (FWA will engage when brakes are applied) part of you post, it's early and I've only had pot of coffee, little grogy.

His tractor has electric engagement of the FWA (ie: flip a switch vs move a lever) and Kubota wired it so that when you hit the brakes, it engages the FWA.
Fairly common on larger tractors across the pond from what I understand and becoming more common on this side of the pond (for larger tractors).

Aaron Z

 

[fishrman]

Yes the clutch pedal should not have gotten stuck behind the stop peg, but that is not what cause your accident. You should be able to repair/redesign the peg fairly easily.

Why you pushed in the clutch I assume was just a reaction to losing control of the tractor.

I agree it does need redesigned but that should be a New Holland problem, not mine!
I pushed in the clutch to try to change to a lower gear, it wasn't a reaction to losing control.

 

[k0ua]

I agree it does need redesigned but that should be a New Holland problem, not mine!
I pushed in the clutch to try to change to a lower gear, it wasn't a reaction to losing control.

Can you confirm that you slid down the hill? Are there skid marks on the grass where the back tires did not roll, but skidded..? If that is the case, and I think it is as you were riding the brakes all the way down and you did not stop, then changing to a lower gear probably would not have helped, as it gives you more compression braking or "holdback" and if and when the tires break traction the counter-intuitive thing to do is to speed up the tractor drive train not slow it down to regain traction with the ground. Yesterday as a case in point I hauled about 16 tons of rock from a neighbors house to mine with my Kioti Hydro equipped tractor.. Down one hill that is covered in gravel I could go down it of course in 4wd without slipping, but in 2wd it slipped the rear tires each time. If I gave the tractor some more hydro pedal to speed up the drivetrain I could regain traction and stop the slide. I went down it more times in 2wd than 4wd, simply because it is a hard surface and I did not want all the tire wear associated with driving on the road in 4wd. I just dealt with the slide of the rear tires by giving it some more pedal. As long as I could stay within a safe speed of descent for the short distance downhill. Of course if I was faced with a long hill, I darn sure would not have done that. When going down steep grassy slopes it is 4wd all the way, as it is just to hard to ever regain traction once it is lost.

James K0UA

 

[fishrman]

Yes, I can confirm I slid. I looked at the situation afterwards and left skids in the grass to bare ground. Understand what you are saying but there is no way I was going to go down that hill in 4th and maintain control either. It was just a mistake on my part in hitting the wrong gear. I have mowed with a little 600 Ford the same way for 30 years or more. I got this new TT45A in 2010. Has about 175 hours on it and almost all mowing hours. Wonder what it would cost me to trade for a similar horse powered tractor with front assist and hydrostatic drive?

 

[k0ua]

Yes, I can confirm I slid. I looked at the situation afterwards and left skids in the grass to bare ground. Understand what you are saying but there is no way I was going to go down that hill in 4th and maintain control either. It was just a mistake on my part in hitting the wrong gear. I have mowed with a little 600 Ford the same way for 30 years or more. I got this new TT45A in 2010. Has about 175 hours on it and almost all mowing hours. Wonder what it would cost me to trade for a similar horse powered tractor with front assist and hydrostatic drive?

It would be some bucks. But what is your life/health worth?. At least you did not try to swerve and overturn the tractor, you just rode it out. What often happens is the guy try's to miss some obstacle like a tree for instance and turns the wheel.. over it goes. It is up to you on what to do about a trade, but from the sound of the terrain you have, I would have a 4wd machine of some type, whether gear or hydro. I like hydro for a variety of reasons, but either would be safer than what you have now.

 

[lhfarm]

I agree with the others that you may need a different tractor. But if you want to make contact with NH, you might have more luck through a dealer. If you are lucky enough to have one near by (mine closed the year after I purchased my tractor) I'd pay them a visit and show them the email you sent. There may already be a fix for the problem or they may be able to report it for you. I'm sure dealers have access to NH email addresses they wouldn't be able to share them and that is understandable. They might be able to put you in touch with a customer rep too.

Besides, a visit would give you a chance to check out other tractor options. If it is a good dealership, I suspect they will want you to be a satisfied NH customer, willing to buy another.

Good luck!

 

[fishrman]

This is a followup on the above. Please note that New Holland has agreed to allow 350.00 toward this bill. I still think it is about 200.00 to high. Dealer told me they charge 70.00 per hour but won't give me a breakdown on how they figured each item! I suppose I should just bend over and pay it now but I won't be doing business with them again if I do! Thoughts?
OK, I had a problem with my tt45a. Clutch pedal got stuck on the other side of the clutch stop when I panicked trying to get it stopped on a hillside. I was able to pull the clutch back around the stop and it was fine again but since I was fearful this might happen to someone else, I called New Holland. They were courteous and told me that they would contact the dealer I purchased it from and have them contact me. My dealer contacted me and told me they would like to come check it out and that they may want to take it back to the shop to inspect it closer. I told them that would be fine. They did end up taking it to the shop. I told them since they had it at the shop they just as well go ahead and service the tractor and asked them to change the oil, change fuel filter and check the brakes and other fluids. That is all I asked them to do. They were in contact with New Holland and me during a week long period of having it in the shop. They told me they were able to duplicate the problem with the clutch a couple of times and that New Holland told them to weld a bigger plate onto the clutch pedal so that it couldn't go around the stop. They didn't ask me if I wanted that done, they just did it. Fine with me as I want a safe tractor.
Bottom line, I got my bill today and they don't break down the hours spent for each process but I can tell you I about fell over. Truthfully, I would have traded the tractor off if they would have told me what they were going to charge me.
Since they didn't break down the bill relative to hours, I can't tell you how much for each but they say they Changed the oil, oil filter, fuel filter, put 15.95 of antifreeze in it somehow ( it was barely low). Charged ME for picking it up and bringing it back even though they are the ones that said they wanted to bring it to the shop. Charged 3.00 a mile for that or 240.00! On top of the parts costs they charged 481.85 for labor! Oh, and shop supplies of 24.09. Also says they power washed the tractor, (I never asked for that). They washed out the radiator fins. Again (never asked for that)
Blew out outer air filter.
Total bill is 867.54 with 71.07 charged for parts and the 24.09 shop supplies!
I think any reasonable person would say this is ridiculous.
I never asked them to do anything to the clutch pedal. That was New Hollands suggestion. I never asked them to pick up the tractor etc. etc.
The only thing I feel I owe for is the service work. What do you guys think would be fair to figure for the service work done? Do you agree with me or am I nuts?

 

[rsallen]

YOU had and caused the accident with the tractor.
YOU also okayed the service work.
None of it, I repeat, none of the it was N.H.'s fault. In fact I think it was generous N.H. offered you anything at all.

Pay the bill you owe.