Turbocharging a Foton 25 hp....

[amafrank]

I posted this on the customization board but got advised it might do better here...

I've got a Foton 25 HP that I've had for about a year now. Its been pretty good with the mowing, blade work and front end loading tasks. Snow plowing with the blade has gone better than expected too. There are times though when just a few more ponies would make life a lot easier and I've thought about adding a turbo. Efficiency can be improved as well. Diesels are much easier to add a turbo to than gas engines but while I spent a lot of years working on indycars with turbos I've never worked up a set up for a diesel. Mechanically making all the fittings and fabricating the mounts and such are not a problem. Its engineering the proper size turbo and making whatever mods need to be done in the fuel system. I realize that the next bigger size tractor might have been cost effective but I really like the smaller one. It fits the barn, does the job for the most part and is easier to handle. I guess the basic question here is: has anyone out there done this type of thing and where can I find info on sizing and fuel system mods????

Thanks in advance.
Frank in Indiana where the snow is finally starting to melt a little....

 

[greg_g]

I'm not sure, but I kinda think going straight bolt-on turbo might generate too much heat for the stock valves/valve guides/valve seats - maybe even the valve springs and piston heads. I know diesels run cooler by reputation, but perhaps you should consider a feasibility study before you engage in any actual milling work.

I'd have to do some research to come up with anything definitive, but I think there's already a turbo-charged Chinese tractor on the market. It's a much larger tractor, but it could provide a case study in what's different in the normally aspirated and turbocharged versions of the same engine.

//greg//

 

[psj12]

Supposing the head, liners, pistons, rods, crank and bearing could handle the extra horsepower and compression you also need to change the valve and fuel timing. This may be fairly easy given they are gear driven. Just experiment with tooth placement in relation to the timing marks. It may also require regrinding the cam for timing and valve lift changes.
In order to make use of the extra air a turbo provides you would need more fuel. This may be available through adjustments in the existing pump. Additionaly the injectors need to be capable of delivering the larger fuel volume. This also may not be an issue.
In older (pre-electronic control) truck engines there is a boost pressure diaphram that works with the fuel pump to accelerate the engine quicker much like a vacum advance on a distributer. I don't think this is much of an issue on a tractor where the engine is operated in more of a steady rpm state.

 

[MrFixit]

As mentioned this may not be a cost effictive modification but you like the small size of the tractor and the way it handles.

I also needed a small tractor with a bit more HP. The Jinma 354 (35 HP) is much larger than the Foton 25 and was too big for the areas I have to work in. However the KAMA 354 (35 HP) is much smaller, handles tight spots and probably puts out the additional HP you need.

I bought a KAMA 354 and it's got gobs of power but is not much larger than the Foton 25. It fits inside my little 2 car garage. Maybe selling your Foton and purchasing a slightly used KAMA 354 would be less expensive than trying to get the additional power out of the Foton.

Tim

 

[JohnS]

I'd forget the turbo. It sounds like an expensive expierement that would probably cause early engine failure. I'm not sure what engine is in a Foton 254, but most of the chinese engines can squeeze a few more hp out by make injector pump timing/pressure adjustments. I don't have specifics about how to do this, but a good diesel mechanic should be able to figure out the injector pump. Will you notice the a 2-3hp increase, probably not.

 

[California]

has anyone out there done this type of thing

Just do it.

A year ago over in the Yanmar forum, somebody hung a turbo on a 24hp, 25-30 year old Yanmar. He had to cut the hood but no other modifications to the fuel system etc. He said it ran strong without running hot. His only issue was finding the right size turbo.

Also another turbo user posted into that thread. His only problem was an insufficiently sized oil return line so it threw oil out the exhaust until he got that straightened out. It sounds like you have the technical expertise to work around this kind of minor obstacle.

Here's the thread: Turbo on YM2000

Like I said in that thread - please post a sound file of yours running!

 

[thingy]

Don't know what kinda motor a foton has but power is never a problem on my 254 jinma,,5ft hog,single bottom plow,[could use a two bottom],6 ft heavyduty blade 5 ft tiller,,no power problems,,traction problems sometimes,,but the one thing on this tractor I always thought that out shined the rest was the motor,,,thingy

 

[tat2z1969]

Can't use the stock pistons, if you do you are wasting your time. The stock pistons will not move the air in the combustion chamber to any good use. One needs a cut down piston and in the center but offset a crown that looks like a dunce hat, to maintain compression and swirls the charged air to mix with the fuel. Injector pump will need calibrated.
You want to piss money away and blow your engine buy a Banks turbo for about $2000.00, call them and they will sell you the correct size, but they will tell you the same thing I did, need different pistons.

 

[JSUnlimited]

Frank,

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking of turbocharging. I guess I'll be following this post closely.

Several links you may be interested in.

Turbochargers and turbos by Michigan Turbo
=| Insatiable need for speed |= (scroll down to small turbo apps.)
Ray Hall Turbocharging - Main Page (in Australia, but might be good resource)

On thing I'm stuck on is getting an oil supply to the turbo. Fabrication and the rest are no problem.

 

[amafrank]

well guys, I appreciate all the helpful hints. I do know this is possible and not really all that expensive. I believe that if the engine can handle diesel pressures its not going to blow itself up just because I add little boost. I'm not looking to get 35 hp out of this program so I won't be running high boost. Adjusting the fuel pump is something I can see as a possible necessity but grinding cams and new pistons are something I would only do if I was looking for the last ounce of energy. Please don't get the idea I'm trying to knock your ideas, thats definately not the intent. I'm getting a lot of ideas of areas that need to be looked at in the process from you all. I've been working with turbocharged engines for quite a while and have seen many times the result of "slight" mistakes at max power outputs. Buying a new turbo would probably make it beyond reason pricewise but there are lots of used turbos out there....
I've seen a lot of gas engines that had different part numbers for the turbo'd engine parts but when compared they are actually the same. A lot of the sprint parts had the same part numbers on the parts despite the different numbers on the boxes. I figure that if you can turbo charge a Le Car or Sprint engine and double the horsepower adding 3 or 5 to a diesel should be simple...
2 hp can make the difference between shifting at the bottom of the hill mowing or 3/4 of the way up. It can make the difference between mowing in 2nd or 3rd gear which can save a lot of fuel and speed up the mowing process by a lot. Just a couple wheel horsepower can make all the difference in the world so to me its worth looking into.
As for oil supply, there must be an oil gallery somewhere that could be tapped into or a feed line for an unused item. I'm sure it depends on the engine but since a lot of these were designed for multiple applications there are frequently other places available for picking up oil. Drain lines should be no problem at all. Supply is critical though as is a cooler since the turbo will add a lot of of heat to the oil system.


Thanks all,
I'll check out the other sites.
Frank