Turn Front Wheels Out?

PAB_OH · May 5, 2006

I have a grey 'Bota, not sure if they will make a diff. or not but I thought I should state it.

Anyway, I live on a pretty good sized hill and the front lawn is pretty steep. I generally try to mow up and down but with the rice tires after it rains it doesn't do so well so I go across it. The pucker factor definitley goes up a notch but I haven't had reason to worry yet. I was looking at the front wheels tonight after mowing and noticed they look like they can be "turned out" to give me a wider stance. When I was looking to buy a tractor a few months ago I posted a picture of an Iseki TA that had the front wheels turned out and someone replied that the wheels should be "turned in" (narrow stance).

Am I missing something here? Wouldn't it make sense to make my front tires as wide as possible, like I have with the rears? Or are the front wheels not designed to take that kind of load?

PHOTO ATTACHED

Soundguy · May 6, 2006

Some manufacturers state that you can turn rims dished out to get a wider stance. CNH is like this. All the ford/NH units I've owened.. show dishing the rims for width.. however.. take cub cadet. A friend tells me his manual says that rims should not be dished out, that it places too much stress on front end components. ( guess they don't build them as strong as CNH units /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ).

Also.. some rims are rigged with offset notches to prevent dishing.. etc..

check your manual..

Soundguy

Doc_Bob · May 6, 2006

I have looked at the NH/Case rear tires ( I am shopping) on the TC40 and TC 45). The sales folk and my eyes tell me that the rears can be spread wider, in fact, six differrent positions. One sales type told me that they do not (cannot?) widen the fronts.

Bob

RoyJackson · May 6, 2006

I swapped my front wheels side to side. This increased the track 3"-5". The increase is due to the way the wheels are dished. A side to side swap may work for you, if the inside dishing is deeper the the outer dish.

My Deere 790 manual recommends this in some circumstances. The tractor does feel more stable, but that is subjective.

The side to side swap is required because R-4 tires are directional (designed to give more traction in one direction). Those "rice tires" you mention are closer to Ag type tires, also directional (assuming you have 4WD). A side to side swap may work for you. Only down side is the valve stems would be on the inside as mounted. That's a bit more hassle to check air pressure.

Personally, I wouldn't operate a tractor on wet grass...either across the slope or up and down. Grass is pretty slick...too much potential for an accident (IMHO).

PAB_OH · May 6, 2006

( Also.. some rims are rigged with offset notches to prevent dishing

Soundguy )

Yep, I looked a bit coser and sure enough the surface that would mate with the axle has raised sections to prevent you from turning them around. I guess that answers that.

Thanks for the tip.

PAB_OH · May 6, 2006

( The side to side swap is required because R-4 tires are directional (designed to give more traction in one direction). Those "rice tires" you mention are closer to Ag type tires, also directional (assuming you have 4WD). A side to side swap may work for you. Only down side is the valve stems would be on the inside as mounted. That's a bit more hassle to check air pressure.

Personally, I wouldn't operate a tractor on wet grass...either across the slope or up and down. Grass is pretty slick...too much potential for an accident (IMHO). )

Yes I do have 4WD and I forgot that since they are directional a side-to-side swap would be needed. Regardless it doesn't look like I'll be able to swap them, see above post.

Also, I don't mow wet grass /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif, no way! I meant the ground gets soft and the rears dig in way too bad. Thanks for the reminder though.

N80 · May 8, 2006

The manual for my 4wd L4400 says not to do this with the fronts. It also says no liquid ballast for the fronts.

Av8r3400 · May 8, 2006

Step back and think about this for a minute.

The front axle pivots in the middle, no springs or anything, just a side to side pivot. If you widen the stance by reversing the wheels, will you add any stability?

No.

You will add more stress to the bearings in the front gear boxes and more stress to the steering linkages.

N80 · May 8, 2006

( Step back and think about this for a minute.

The front axle pivots in the middle, no springs or anything, just a side to side pivot. If you widen the stance by reversing the wheels, will you add any stability?)

I must not be stepping back far enough. It only pivots so far and it only pivots if it is on a different plane than the rear tires.......but no one has accused me of being the 'thinker' in the bunch.

PAB_OH · May 9, 2006

That argument could be had for widening the rear tires as well. ANYTIME you lengthen a moment arm you increase the moment (torque) applied to a system.

So my question wasn't without merit and I did step back to look at the problem before I asked it.

Using your line of thinking no one should put a FEL on their tractor either, because it puts more stress on the bearings and steering linkages as well (more load = more stress).

Now back to your original assertion, lets carry this to extremes. If I add 24" of length to my front axle per side (4 feet over all) have I added stability to my tractor? You bet I have. You try to tip over a tractor that has an additional 2 feet of axle sticking out to the side. I can assure you it will require a much larger input of force in addition to increasing the critical angle at which the tractor will tip (this is my definition of stability in this instance).

Regardless, it is not do-able on my tractor, I have a feeling though that it is possible and possibly even recommended for some tractors in some instances. That is why I asked.