Undercarrage Life

[stathamj]

I'm looking at getting a small to mid size dozer again. I've been trying to get someone to do some work on my property. But, it's like pulling teeth. I've tried getting 4 differant people out there and they've always had some excuse and there still hasn't been anything done. That's why I started doing my own farming and such. You just can't depend on anyone anymore it seems. I know not everyone is like this. But, its frustrating to wait on others for weeks for nothing. I could be doing it myself.
My property is a neglected timber piece. It had some trees cut many years ago but has been neglected since. The undergrowth is now 3-10' tall. Some are weeds, some are new tree and shrub growth and some are tree and shrub regrowth. Most of the things I need to clean up are 12" or less in diameter. Very few are more than 8-10" in diameter. There is some dead standing timber as well. I want to try and get the best dozer that I can afford with a budget of $15K. But, can I expect to find a decent dozer in that price range in good shape? I know I've seen some comment about spending the most you can to get the best you can. I could spend 5K more if needed. I'm not planning on trying to operate it commercially. Just clean up my property. I've been looking at the Case 450,550. The Cat D3, D4,D5 & D6. Most of the D6's are more than I want to spend and/or appear to be worn out. I'm also looking at the Komatsu D20,D32,D37 & D39 as well. It seems that these 3 are the preferred brands over others and maybe easier to work on as well. I see quite a few Dresser. But, don't know about them or other such as Fiat or Allis-Chambers.

Something I want to get an idea about is the amount of undercarrage left. What I mean is "If they say there is 60% U/C" About how many hours can one might expect to get before it needs and U/C rebuild or replacement. My soil type is Red-Clay. I know there is no hard and fast answer. I'm just trying to get an idea of how many hours I might operate it before repairs.
Any help or info would be appriciated. I don't know that since I'm new to the forum if I can post photo's. But, I could post some if I 'm allowed just to give an indication at what I'm looking at.


James

 

[PILOON]

I'm no expert but have owned a couple of dozers.
Sprockets should have flat tips, sharp pointed tips are all worn out.
Track links should be round, not oval.
Track pads should have good grip' look for about 1" or so.
Good hydraulics would allow to lift front up and hold it there.

Your best insurance is to hire a dozer mechanic to check out your choice B4 putting down hard $$'s.
It could be the cheapest assurance you can buy, even a $200. 'fee' would be super cheap when buying a $15K dozer as I've known folks to spend upwards of $5k on repairs and still have a pile of scrap.

Better brands (popular ones) have tons of good used parts available with Cat at top of list, a search for just about any Cat D6 part will turn up tons of hits.

 

[JasG]

Something I want to get an idea about is the amount of undercarrage left. What I mean is "If they say there is 60% U/C" About how many hours can one might expect to get before it needs and U/C rebuild or replacement. My soil type is Red-Clay. I know there is no hard and fast answer. I'm just trying to get an idea of how many hours I might operate it before repairs.
Any help or info would be appriciated. I don't know that since I'm new to the forum if I can post photo's. But, I could post some if I 'm allowed just to give an indication at what I'm looking at.


James

As far as expected hours there is no good way to know. It all depends on usage and how well you maintain them. I can tell you a few things that speed up wear. Track that are too tight or too loose, sandy soil, rock (or any hard surface). Driving in reverse and across slopes also add wear to the whole system. Sometimes these can't be helped, but when possible try and plan your usage to reduce these.

Best bet is to buy a manual for the machine and read the sections on the tracks. It should go over driving and track adjustments.

You should also check out heavyequipmentforums.com. They have sections on dozers with a lot of threads.

I've run Cat, Deere, Case and owned a Dresser TD-8E. The Dresser was by far the best bang for the buck, I loved that machine. I would rank it right there with the Cat's and Deere's I have run. Didn't like the Case as much, I just didn't feel as productive as I did on a same size dozer from the other 3 listed.

For a few years Dresser and International were basically the same machine.

 

[ultrarunner]

The Dozer market is alive and well where I am.

I reluctantly ran out of projects for my D3 and listed it on Craigslist.

Many replies and the first person bought it and didn't quibble on my 15k price.

 

[grsthegreat]

Im not sure how much you have to do, but where i live, i have rented a d3 and a JD450 for about $1200/week, and in a week you can make some serious headway.

Id rather pay to rent a near new machine than buy an older ... possible money pit.... anytime.

The last dozer i rented for $200/day had 20 hours on it...it was so nice and shiny......i really did wish it were mine. But i really personally have no need for full time ownership.

I have 20 treed acres and i just needed to make a trail thru the woods for the dogs, horses, etc. didnt take too long to complete the main project. Its amazing how much brush and tree stumps you can remove in 1 day.




Now, as far as undercarriage %, this is a totally arbitrary figure thrown out by dealers. If the unit has 2,000 hours and they say the undercarriage still has 60%, then theoretically you should be able to squeeze another 2000 out of it. Ya right. Too much else goes into the factor. I have operated real old, 50% remaining UC dozers in the past, and they were not nice to run. they squeal like a stuck pig, they jump track if your not real careful, and wo behold the litany of items that can go wrong with them. I used to lease 2 dozers in Calif years ago, all older equipment, and the mechanic bills for on site maint was astronomical. i always thought the $$$ savings in leasing old ovre new was the better way to go, but as time went on, it wasnt worth it.


Another option is to buy a very low time used, clean dozer .. no mater the cost, and then reselling it after your work is completed. You could get all your money back if the machine is treated well and maintained properly.

 

[stathamj]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will get a dozer mechanic to look it over as soon as I can find one. Since I don't really know anyone with a dozer or even a heavy equipment mechanic. I'm pretty meticulous about maintenance as I want something to laast as long as possible. I've seen several Dresser's. But, like I said don't know much about them. Cat, Case have dealerships within 30 miles of the dozer location. Komatsu is 66 miles. John Deere AG is 15 miles. Not sure on John Deere Industrial.I was kind of leaning away from JD as I read here somewhere that repair can be a pain because you have to take so much apart to get to things. But, no matter what any of them will be a pain if they break while in use. Because it will almost always be at the most inoppertune time and location.
The rental rates sre about the same here. The problem is getting the week off to use them. I was thinking about renting on in Sept. as I'll be off Labor Day week. It's only economical for me to rent weekly as I never know if I'll get the weekend off till Thursday. It would cost half for two days rental and delievery/pickup as it would for the whole week. This is why I thought it would be better to have one when I needed it.
I didn't really see where anyone thought I or anyone for that matter could get a decent dozer for $15K. In the meantime I'll continue looking for a dozer and for someone that's not too busy. Even if there a 100 miles away.

Thanks again everyone,

James

 

[JasG]

I didn't really see where anyone thought I or anyone for that matter could get a decent dozer for $15K. In the meantime I'll continue looking for a dozer and for someone that's not too busy. Even if there a 100 miles away.

Thanks again everyone,

James

There are good dozer in the 15K range, but it took me several years of looking. What I found was many people wanted way too much for a machine. It was either in really good shape and too much, or in my price range and junk. Most of the dozers I looked at didn't sell for a very long time. Then I found a Dresser TD-8E with a rebuilt transmission and low hours in total that the guy needed cash to buy a newer machine. I bought it for $17K and sold it for 17.5, 5 years later. I did fix some issues with the dozer and clean it up good before I sold it and the buyer never tried to get me to come down. He came and was happy with it and took it right away. A similar Deere or Cat would have been at least $20K and many listed for $25K.

Dresser was owned by Komatsu, but I do not know if that is still the case. I don't think it is and then name was changed to Dressta.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I like newer deere and case. I wouldn't go smaller than a 550 case. If a dozer has 2k hours on it I would suspect some UC work done on it already. Check to see if the pins have been rolled. Grousers can be welded to get by longer as long as they aren't worn thin. UC can get very expensive. An idler here or there or a sprocket aren't big deals but the rails and pads get expensive quick. I wish you were closer to Houston or centerville because I could get you set up with some top notch dozer guys.

Brett

 

[jim44]

I had an International TD 7E a few years ago, I think it was a late '80s model. Very easy to operate and trouble-free machine. Sold it and bought a Cat D 3 a few years later. It was also a late 80s model, but what a hunk of junk. The little International would have been able to work circles around it.

International soon became Dresser and then Dressta and I think now it's all Komatsu.

I do think that you would be able to find a good usable machine in your $15K price range.

 

[Bigfoot62]

Be patient. You can buy a nice machine for $15-20K. From your description, a small dozer would do just fine. (450, D3, etc) No need to look at the bigger tractors, unless you get a steal of a deal. And, sometimes that is the case. I've seen a good looking D5 for less money than a D3.

Jim44 is correct, a Dresser is a re-badged International.

I really like the Case dozers. I had a 450C for years. The guy I sold it to, (about 16 years ago) still has it, and it still works. 4 cylinder Cummins diesel. (T-390, I think) Everything on the Case is modular, and relatively easy to work on. The power-to-weight ratio is really good, so they're "light on their feet" compared to some other dozers. (JD and Cat are really heavy)
BTW, the 550 is basically the 450 with a longer undercarriage.
I wouldn't go any older than a 450C. IIRC, the B model had dry brakes.

As far as undercarriage goes, wear is determined by several factors:
Weight of the machine.
Operating conditions. (type of soil, running in water, etc)
Operator. (how it's used or abused) The old adage of "speed kills" will apply here. Dozers are not made for speed. Fast ground speeds are tough on the undercarriage.
Width of pads. Wide grousers (LGP) stand up better in soft dirt, but it puts more stress on the rails and rollers.

Something to consider: I just did a quick look on machinerytrader.com and there is a 550 for $10K that needs new U/C. Haven't priced it lately, but I used to be able to replace the entire U/C for about $6K.

 

[stathamj]

Sorry about no responses. I've been out of pocket for a while and just got back in town this past weekend. Without bashing anyone, is there any particular brand or model to stay away from. Maybe just for the lack of parts or something like that. I've found several in Tennesseee that looked nice and could be purchased and trucked in cheaper than I can get one locally. The only problem is inspecting it. I don't know any one in Tennesse let alone a dozer knowledgeable person. I'm not real keen on the idea of ust purchasing it blindlyeither. I did post on another area if anyone knew of these dealers and had or knew of any experiances with them.I've been looking mainly at the D3, D4, D5 & D6 the Case 450, 550 & 1150 and the JD 450.I don't know much about the International or Dresser dozers. I've also looked at the Kamatsu D32 & D 39 series.

James

 

[rustyshakelford]

Sometimes a cheap flight and rental would allow you to check the tractor out in person and only take a day out of your schedule. That way you know what you your getting.

Brett

 

[RDrancher]

James, is your property in Mineola? I know a dozer guy that lives over in Rockwall. He's semi retired and working for a conservancy group now, but his partner is still running the business. You might be too far for them, but you never know.

You might want to post up on the Land Clearing forum section too. A lot of those guys just stick to that forum and might never see this thread.

 

[stathamj]

RD,

Thanks for the tip. I'll try that as well. The property is actually about 10 miles east of Mineola. Still looking for a dozer. I have about determined it's more about convinence than just having a dozer and all of the headaches that can go along with it. I just saw a Dresser in Indiana that looked nice. But, I can never ger away to go look and I hate trying to get a good one from pictures and their description. So, I guess I'll continue looking.

James

 

[ultrarunner]

I really enjoyed having my Dozer and was sad to see it go after 17 years... just didn't have more than a few hours work for it each year after the bulk of the property was sold.

Renting would never have worked for me in the beginning because my schedule and weather conditions were too unpredictable.

The upside is I sold it for 2k less than I had paid for it... not bad for 17 years and no repairs other than a few hoses and lines...