Grapple Upgrade FEL controls or not

[Wa11banger]

I have a Koyker 160 FEL on my 40HP tractor. I am converting it to a SSQD and first thing I want to purchase is a grapple. I could add a control stick for the grapple but, I'm thinking about just buying a new valve set with the additional stick or capability already added.

Unfortunately I have no experience in this area so I am looking for any of you that have gone through this to share your thoughts or ideas. I am fairly certain adding a stick is probably cheaper but cheaper isn't always better. I did a search for power beyond and kind of understand the concept but I am not sure it is applicable for a grapple or if I even have a PB port I will know more this weekend when I get back up to the property.

Thanks
Rick

 

[k0ua]

I have a Koyker 160 FEL on my 40HP tractor. I am converting it to a SSQD and first thing I want to purchase is a grapple. I could add a control stick for the grapple but, I'm thinking about just buying a new valve set with the additional stick or capability already added.

Unfortunately I have no experience in this area so I am looking for any of you that have gone through this to share your thoughts or ideas. I am fairly certain adding a stick is probably cheaper but cheaper isn't always better. I did a search for power beyond and kind of understand the concept but I am not sure it is applicable for a grapple or if I even have a PB port I will know more this weekend when I get back up to the property.

Thanks
Rick

Rick, how about a simple diverter valve. Electric/hydraulic. You push and hold a button on the joystick(or elsewhere, could be foot operated) to momentarily divert the flow of hydraulic fluid from the curl/dump function of your existing loader valve to open/close the grapple lid. Then release the button to instantly revert back to its default flow path of curl/dump operating in its normal fashion. It is cheap, and fairly easy to plumb up and simple electrical wiring to an actuator button on the joystick that controls the divertor solenoids coil. Valve, button switch, hoses and all should be somewhere around $300 or so, maybe a bit more.

 

[bindian]

Rick, how about a simple diverter valve. Electric/hydraulic. You push and hold a button on the joystick(or elsewhere, could be foot operated) to momentarily divert the flow of hydraulic fluid from the curl/dump function of your existing loader valve to open/close the grapple lid. Then release the button to instantly revert back to its default flow path of curl/dump operating in its normal fashion. It is cheap, and fairly easy to plumb up and simple electrical wiring to an actuator button on the joystick that controls the divertor solenoids coil. Valve, button switch, hoses and all should be somewhere around $300 or so, maybe a bit more.

What he said.................:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
You can read my diverter valve installation here starting in post #44................ http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-mount-5.html?highlight=post+hole+auger+mount
I hope this helps!
hugs, Brandi

 

[TomSeller]

I run mine off of rear remotes and I do a LOT of grappling. Not an issue.

 

[LD1]

Here is my diverter install http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/368221-got-grapple-installed-my-diverter.html

There is basically two schools of thought on operating a grapple.
Diverter valve or 3rd function.

Third function is a bit more complex to install, requires a few more hoses/connections. The benefit is that you can do all 3 functions at the same time. (Loader lift, loader curl, and grapple lid).

Diverter piggy-backs off either the lift or curl circuit. So you cannot use the grapple.....and whatever circuit you tie it to, at the same time. Which really isnt an issue IMO.

True third functions also normally use a solenoid valve. So you hit the button to close, and it closes under full speed and power til you let off the button. Diverter, uses your existing valve, so you can feather the control/speed of the lid.

Other two options include an all in one valve.....I think surplus center has a joystick valve with 3rd function built in. But trying to mount and plumb a totally new valve, and keep it clean and ergonomic, and not nearly the quality of a valve that most OEM loaders have.....I didnt go that route.

Or if you have remotes. SOme tractors have remotes that the valve is pretty close to the FEL control, and thus not akward to operate. Others have the remote valves not anywhere at all near the loader valve. Like kubota. Trying to run a grapple off a remote would make no sense at all.

 

[jimmysisson]

Several of us run the grapple off the remotes and think they're just fine. YMMV
Jim

 

[Wa11banger]

Thanks all for the ideas about the diverter solenoid hadn't thought of that..

I do have remotes but wasn't sure about them being what a grapple needed.. I am not totally sure but it appears they are open center?? pull up push down they return to center I wasn't sure if when the stick came to center that it wouldn't let go again

Like I said a real newbie when it comes to hydraulics... But thanks a lot for the ideas I may try hoses to my remote and if that doesn't work go the electric diverter valve off of the tilt for the fel

 

[LD1]

Most remotes are indeed spring center. That alone dont tell you weather its open center or closed center. And no matter what it may be, its a remote......with a supply and return. ITs made for operating cylinders.....weather it be a TNT, wheel cylinders to lift an implement, angle cylinder on a blade.......or front grapple cylinder. It dont care. It will open and close the cylinder just the same.

 

[N2DFire]

Hey Rick,

Just to sum up what you've already been told and add a little bit.

What LD1 said about the rear remotes is spot on & to address your concern - the grapple will still hold it's position / grip when the operating lever returns to center - just like your current loader controls. Everything stays where you leave it till you operate the control again.

If you already have a unused rear remote then this is obviously the cheapest solution, next up being the diverter, and most complex / expensive being a true 3rd function.

LD1's explanation of the 3rd function is also great but there is one "catch" to be aware of, on smaller tractors the total hydraulic system flow isn't enough to supply all 3 functions at once. For example on our CK if you try Lifting/Lowering and Curling/Dumping at the same time you have to REALLY feather both of them, otherwise Function 1 (Lift/Lower) takes all the fluid and Function 2 (Curl/Dump) gets none. Since "Power Beyond" is the technical term for unused fluid flow - in this case our 3rd Function will also not get any fluid. So sometimes you don't really "gain" over a diverter set-up in that sense.

For ours, I went with a 3rd function anyway just because of how they operate. I didn't want to have the stick in "dump" dumping the grapple and then have to go to neutral, press a button and go to "Curl" to open the grapple lid (then Dump a little more, open the lid a little more back & forth) - I'm not that coordinated LOL

I have a very basic understanding of how hydraulics works from some college engineering classes (20 some odd years ago) but no real hands on knowledge / experience of the different fittings, couplings, how stuff went together, etc and I was still able to cobble together a 3rd function system without *TOO* much of a learning curve (aka trial & error). I have a thread on it here
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/358086-kioti-ck-35-3rd-function.html

There are companies out there that have diverter kits and 3rd function kits that are pretty much bolt n go and you should be able to install one of those yourself with minimal trouble. If you want to tackle a more custom solution, there are enough great resources here on TBN to get you through it. I mean I did it, no reason you can't either.

Best of luck whatever route you take.

 

[LD1]

For ours, I went with a 3rd function anyway just because of how they operate. I didn't want to have the stick in "dump" dumping the grapple and then have to go to neutral, press a button and go to "Curl" to open the grapple lid (then Dump a little more, open the lid a little more back & forth) - I'm not that coordinated LOL

I understand your concern....but there is a way around that and still use the diverter.

Make "dump" = "open" and "curl" = "close"

That way.....when dumping and opening the lid....there is no back and forth. Just simply push the button. No need to return the stick to neutral even.

This is how I would have preferred mine to be, but couldn't because my valve is regen only. And regen only works to extend a cylinder. Therefore dump had to be the same as close. But then I lack power.

I ended up moving mine to the lift circuit. Where lift is close and down is open. And I actually like this ALOT better. As I can dump and open AT THE SAME TIME by pushing button and moving the stick up and right. Or I can curl and close at the same time by pulling the stick down and left at the same time.

Like anything, once you learn the controls...it becomes second nature and just like an extension of your arm.