Using loader and external hydraulics??

[Arkwright]

Hope you guys can help me with a query!

I have a Massey Ferguson 390 tractor. This tractor has four hydraulic pipes to the fore loader comprising two to the loader and two to a bucket, for raise and lower.

There are four connectors for rear auxillary hydraulics via T junctions at the rear.

To use the rear auxillaries, I've been advised that I can simply disconnect the pipes to the loader but fitting taps would be a neater way and also prevent the possibility of the loader creeping down.

OK, so far so good. I have the taps, but on which pipes do I fit them? Both on the loader pipes (raise and lower) and remove the bucket? One on the supply side (raise) to the loader and another to the supply side (raise) of the bucket? Or on the returns (lower)??

I am in the UK but know there is a lot of wisdom on this forum! Thanks.

 

[kennyd]

I am not sure I completly understand your question.

So you have a FEL, and four lines going to it (that is 100% normal). Two lines are for the lift/lower circuit, and two are for the dump/curl circuit.

Now you want to "tap" or "Tee" the lines to the rear for other things? That is fine-but you will have to disconnect the loader to do that, you cannot use both the front and rear at the same time.

Maybe some pictures of your setup will help clear things up for us...have you though about just adding a new valve so you can have independant control at the rear and leave the FEL functional?

 

[Arkwright]

Here is my set up. As you can see, the tractor is fitted with a fore loader and currently a bucket. The bucket will be replaced with a flat 8 bale grab at harvest which works through a separate electro spool valve. (This works fine). That is a 56 bale transporter at the rear for carting home a 7 high stack of bales put together with the flat 8 grab. I am having trouble getting the hydraulics of the bale transporter to work.



The transporter woks as follows. The body of the bale trasporter tips backwards by using a double acting hydraulic ram. The two sides are then opened with a second cylinder and the transporter is backed into a stack of bales and the flow to the sides is reversed which then close to clamp the stack. The whole stack is then tilted forwards onto the axle for transportation.

The hydraulics for the FEL and transporter at the rear auxillaries are fed through spools with T junctions at the rear of the tractor which are controlled by levers in the cab. Obviously, without some method of diverting the flow, it goes to FEL and auxillaries (transporter) equally.



My original question was how to isolate the loader so I could work the transporter. I wouldn't want to operate both at the same time. I got various suggestions on another forum but, to be on the safe side, I have put taps on all four pipes to the front. Probably over-kill, but it works.



My first problem was a very slow response when tilting the bucket up. I discovered that the linkages needed adjusting and the FEL is now working correctly. Not so the bale transporter!

Both rams on the transporter work OK. They were recently refurbished by a very good firm of hydraulic engineers. I can get the ram that works the sides to operate, but not the other. When I swop pipes, neither works! I suspect it is the linkages again. These are adjusted by nuts on the threaded linkages. I just can't seem to get it to work, although everything to the front of the tractor works fine. What am I missing?

 

[KWentling]

From looking at the pictures it would appear that you need to shut off the valves to the loader to be able to use the rear remote that the tees have been plumbed into? It would appear that the tees are after the remote valve so you have to have that remote activated to use your loader? Hydraulics seek the path of least resistance so with the those valves open neither the loader nor the bale wagon hydraulics that are teed into that remote are going to work. If nothing is plugged into the remote the loader would work OK. On my Case tractor I plumbed a power beyond loader valve between the pump and the remote valves so either can be used. I'm not familiar with you're tractor so I don't know if that is an option or not.
Another possibility would be an electric diverter valve but that would require you to select between the loader or rear remote.
Interested in Kenny's response to this.


Kim

 

[kennyd]

From looking at the pictures it would appear that you need to shut off the valves to the loader to be able to use the rear remote that the tees have been plumbed into? It would appear that the tees are after the remote valve so you have to have that remote activated to use your loader? Hydraulics seek the path of least resistance so with the those valves open neither the loader nor the bale wagon hydraulics that are teed into that remote are going to work. If nothing is plugged into the remote the loader would work OK. On my Case tractor I plumbed a power beyond loader valve between the pump and the remote valves so either can be used. I'm not familiar with you're tractor so I don't know if that is an option or not.
Another possibility would be an electric diverter valve but that would require you to select between the loader or rear remote.
Interested in Kenny's response to this.


Kim

Perfect Kim-You said it great!

Ark, You cannot have the Tee's with something plugged into both sides-it's one or the other you you will need shutoff valve plumbed in.

I strongly suggest (as I did in my first reply) that you add a new spool valve to your system so you can have independent control of all your implements. Blocking off the loader to use something on the rear is just not a great way to operate...


How many hoses do you have connected to your FEL valve? If the # is seven...Can you identify a port labeled PB or BYD?

 

[Arkwright]

The T is after the spool valves in the picture so equal pressure will go the the FEL and transporter.

The hydraulic pipes to the loader are the ones exiting either side of the spool block. I have fitted taps to the pipes to the FEL as this is a neater job than just unplugging them. With the taps closed all hydraulic fluid goes to the transporter. The pipes from the hydraulic pump are not visible in the picture. So I am 99% sure I have everything connected as it should be, also all buttons, knobs,and levers set correctly. For some reason, insufficient pressure is getting to the transporter.

One theory is that the pump is not putting out enough pressure to work the transporter. But the FEL (with the transporter uncoupled) works fine. Another is that there might be a faulty coupling. I can swap out couplings to test this.

This one is a real head banger and it doesn't seem to be anything simple like an incorrect setting or connection. I have the manual and am reasonably competent with mechanics but this has me beat. Incidentally, that spool block and couplings is as fitted from the factory and not DIY.

 

[KWentling]

The T is after the spool valves in the picture so equal pressure will go the the FEL and transporter.

A tee will NOT send equal pressure to the FEL and transporter. The flow is going to go which ever way has the least resistance. The way you have it now your transporter should work if you have the flow shut off to the FEL. If you open those valves and disconnect the transporter then the FEL works. You can have one or the other, but not both with your tee. Like Kenny said, can you see a port on your loader valve that says "PB" or "BYD" ? If so you can still use the same loader valve, just need to change the plumbing.

Kim

 

[kennyd]

I guess I am unsure what you mean with the term "taps" You say you have them closed so I must assume you mean it's a valve of some sort? Could one of them be bad and allowing fluid to bypass internally?

The word "tap" is usually interchangable with "Tee" so I think that is where me and Kim are getting confused.

 

[KWentling]

Kenny, I'm taking it that a "tap" is a quick connect coupling. In one of the pictures it shows the tee fittings between the remote valves and quick connects.

Kim

 

[KWentling]

I just went back and looked at that picture again and both sets of remotes are teed, so I'm guessing there is no loader valve and you are using the tractor's remote valves to operate the loader? What other controls do you have? You mention buttons, knobs, and levers. I'm not understanding how this could work but maybe there is more to it than I can see.

Kim