Tractor Sizing Utility Tractor for 21 acres

[jeepcoma]

Hello TBNers, I bought a 21 acre property and am starting to search for a tractor. Part of the trouble is, there are so many choices out there, and I don't have a strong idea of what I do/don't need, and what size is best for my needs. One thing I have learned, is to buy the best I can afford! I don't have a real budget set yet, but seeing as I bought an 1820s house I am going to be spending time and money lots of other places! That said, I supposed I'd consider $20k my upper limit now which would need to cover my basic needs for this season, which for now would probably be just mowing. I don't mind spending money on implements later down the road (and in fact am looking forward to it), and I'm willing to pay for quality that will last, but there's no sense throwing money away on a tractor that's too big or really more overkill than I need. But, if the consensus is I really need a budget of $30k, then I will just have to save up. I do want to be careful that I'm not spending money on something bigger just for the sake of spending money though (although it would be nice...), I really am just looking to get the most bang for my buck based on my needs (rather than a fixed initial starting price).

Ok, so here are some details for you. Currently, the property has a barn, a garage, and about 6-7 acres of pasture that are cleared but not maintained. For stuff around the house, tricky areas, the septic and leech field, etc I have a Ariens walk behind mower, so I am set for the more delicate work. And, I have a big 30" Ariens blower to handle what little driveway I have, so snow removal is not really something I'll need to tackle either. I also an JD LX178, which has been giving me a lot of reliability trouble (I got it for free because it doesn't run right; I've gotten it through a few seasons and it really tackled the leaves superbly), but I'm not sure it's up to the job even if it is running in tip-top shape. If I consider that I just want to keep the pasture from getting out of control this season, does it even make sense to try and put the LX178 on that duty or would I be better off selling it before I move? With the 38" deck, assuming I could run at top speed (5 mph?), how long would it take to mow 5 acres? Guess I'll break out the calculator after I finish this post and find out!

Beyond maintenance, I have some improvements I'd like to tackle. The horse fences are all falling down so I will need to replace those. My rough calculation showed about 1900 feet of existing fence. So, if I do 8 feet between each post, that's about 240 holes to dig. A post hole digger would be great to have. And a way to carry all that wood around. The pasture was previously being used for hay before it went neglected, so I would like to turn the soil and be able to lay down seeds and use it for hay. This would probably be done for about 5 of the cleared acres. Next, the property has a stream running through it. Most of the land up to the stream is cleared, and the rest is wooded. I need to build a bridge to access the rest of my property, the previous bridge was destroyed in a flood. So, it would be nice to be able to do some heavier duty construction, as to be able to build a bridge that can carry at the minimum the weight of horses (which I could do by hand pretty easily), but it would be nice if I could also get the tractor to the other side to help clear trees. The stream tends to flood in the spring, and a lot of the pasture is in the flood zone, so I may want to consider adding some drainage in the future depending on how frequently and for how long the pastures stay wet after a heavy rain.

Other things to consider are of course dealer access. I searched around for a few of the more common brands, but to be honest I'm not even sure who all the players are. I'm about 25-30 miles from a Deere, Massey Ferguson, Case IH, Mahindra, and I think one other (Kubota?). So I have access to a pretty good selection and will be able to go visit the dealers, get a feel for them, and get some seat time (which seems to be more critical than the spec sheet in many cases). I just need some ideas as to what I should be looking for in terms of size and power. At first, I was looking at the JD 1025R, maybe even the combo that comes with the FEL and backhoe attached (though based on my needs, those are not nearly as urgent as cutting). But, I am thinking I would probably be better served by stepping up to the 2000 series for not much more. And then, well, the 3000 series isn't that much more money either, and yeah, wow, the 3520 look pretty good... well, you can see where this is going. I don't know where to start looking, and I don't know where to stop (though the 4000 series seems to be a bit too large). One thing is for sure, I would rather by a little bit too much tractor than too little, so I don't feel I have to upgrade down the road and also for longevity. I generally buy used equipment, but since I plan on making a long term investment here, I am considering buying new, especially if I can limp along with my LX178 for a season and wait until the best time of year to buy (I would assume the end of autumn would have the best deals?). I've been pretty impressed by the JD LX178 when it's been working, but I don't bleed green either. Searching used is hard because it seems model lines and number designations change every few years just to make used tractor shopping more difficult.

Well, that's a start at least. Thanks for reading!

 

[mud23609]

How many horses are you planning on and what type of hay are you going to be feeding? Small squares, big squares or big rounds?

If you're going to go with rounds or big squares I would give serious consideration to going for a little bit larger used utility tractor than your looking at. Not so much for more hp but for more weight. Hay is not only heavy it sticks out quite a ways as well.

If you're not stuck on new there are some great deals on late 90's early 00's utility tractors in the 60 plus hp range to be had. They are much better built for the farm related tasks than the smaller machines and will outlast them in the type of work your trying to accomplish even though they already have ten years of service on them or more.

Now if you're going to be feeding only small bales and don't have any plans on harvesting your own hay (money losing proposition with such small acreage) a smaller tractor might suit your needs and give many years of good service.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

A 4600 Ford/245-265 Massey Ferguson class of tractor would be nice to have over the next 20 years. If you do not like it but buy it right it may sell in the future for your purchase price or more. Grunt old iron is really handy around a small farm and can set outside just fine if you do not have barns yet. You are talking starting around $7500 for a tractor and bush hog with $10-$12K getting a really nice older rig. The options are many.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

From what I just read, I would look at 40-50 HP machines. Really all of the manufacturers are pretty good these days. So it comes down to what you are comfortable with. I would look at every single dealer within a comfortable driving range for you. Get on the tractors and see how they feel TO YOU. You will find that the Korean tractors, Kioti, LS and TYM are about the best bang for your buck and come with many features std that are additional charges with the other makers. I'm a Mahindra guy myself, have 2 of them, but like all of the different tractors, some just don't fit you for one reason or another, so you look at others that do.

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.

 

[Kyle241]

Based on some of the things you want to do, I think at least a 30hp+ is recommended and if you can get into the 40hp+ then that'll be all that much better. As for brands, it sounds like you have several somewhat 'close' to you. I would go to each with a list of the tasks you have and will have in the future, get some recommendations from each dealer, sit on each they recommend and take them for a test drive. You may find a dealer who is a lot more knowledgeable or you may find one of the brands just suits YOU better. Also make sure to talk to the service manager/guy/girl to make sure they are good to work with as salespeople will sell you the world but when things go wrong, you need the service people on your side. Also don't discount the used market as there are a lot of good tractors for sale as this may allow you to get more attachments than going new.

 

[Piston]

I am going to suggest looking at used tractors. You can get a nice tractor for under 20k. I bought my Kubota L4610 for 16 a few yrs ago with very low hours, in great condition. Rather than going out and spending all my money on the tractor, I bought the one I did, and spent the rest of the money on (used) implements that I found over time. I still have under 30k in all my equipment (see signature below, minus the 410) and I have all very heavy duty, top quality implements that would have been many many thousands more if I bought new.

If I had spent 30 on the tractor, I'd have a really nice tractor, but that's about all.

Remember, it's the implements that do the work, the tractor just runs them. If you find a good used tractor for a good deal, then buy the implements, you'll be way ahead of the game. Then down the road when you have all the implements you want, you can upgrade to a nicer tractor. That's just my .02 cents.

 

[Grandad4]

It's often recommended that you get about one size larger tractor than you think you'll need because your work will almost always involve more than you first anticipated. It sounds like you would do well with a larger-framed compact tractor having 35 - 50 horsepower. If you're unfamiliar with the terminology, that sounds like a contradiction in terms (like "jumbo shrimp"), so let me explain just a bit. These "compact" tractors have smaller physical dimensions than "farm" or "utility" tractors, for better maneuverability doing the kind of work needed in developing and maintaining rural property. They come in a range of sizes from "subcompacts" like that JD 1026R you looked at (too small for your needs, IMO), to some pretty big ones. There are also different combinations of horsepower and weight to choose from.

It sounds like you'd want a tractor that would handle implements that are about 6 ft. in width., so that explains the "larger-framed" comment... you'd want the size and heft to handle that size implement. Why 6 ft.? A 6 ft. brush cutter, for example, would mow your pasture in a reasonable time and since that size implement is also pretty common, it tends to be more affordable than larger ones.

As for horsepower, 35 is probably the least you'd want for that size, and it might be a bit underpowered, depending on what you'll be doing.

Regarding the brands, Kubota and Deere are probably the "premium" brands, Massey, Case-IH and New Holland are also contenders, and Kioti and Mahindra are up and coming. They all make good equipment that works hard and lasts a long time, and each has a base of loyal customers. There are differences in the features that become matters of personal preference you'd have to decide on your own. Familiarize yourself with all of them and choose one you prefer, hopefully from a good dealer.

 

[Piston]

Grandad,
As usual, that's an excellent post!

Jeepcoma,
Check out this link for a good idea of how long it would take to mow your property. Also, check the second link for some pretty helpful articles in general.
For your 5 acres you asked about, with a 6' rotary cutter, it would take 1.9 hrs to mow at 4mph.
At the same speed, with your 38" mower, it would take 3.6 hrs.

TractorData.com - Mowing with tractors
TractorData.com - Tractor Articles

 

[TripleR]

No way I can improve on the information to date, my last tractor was new the one before that used and the one before that new and so on. I bought nothing but used for years and we still have tractors providing good service that are 30, 40 and a couple 60 years old. Hardly any of us use a tractor like a farmer or other professional so a tractor that may only have a short life left running 12-14 hours a day may be sold and will last us a lifetime. If you are uncomfortable knowing good from junk see if you can find a mechanic friend to look at it or I have had good luck trusting my dealer and buying used from him. A reputable dealer can be an invaluable resource.

The good thing about buying used is you can usually sell it for no loss or a profit if it doesn't work out for you. Nothing wrong with buying new mind you, just consider going both routes.

I really prefer a 4WD with a FEL, but some get by without it, I like HST for new operators, but others like gears etc., lots of things for you to decide on and we have all been through it. Good luck.

 

[newbury]

Let's slim this down

21 acre property
budget $20k my upper limit
mowing.
the property has a barn, a garage, and about 6-7 acres of pasture that are cleared but not maintained.

some improvements I'd like to tackle.
The horse fences are all falling down so I will need to replace those. about 240 holes to dig. A post hole digger would be great to have.
And a way to carry all that wood around.
like to turn the soil and be able to lay down seeds and use it for hay.
for about 5 of the cleared acres.
I need to build a bridge to access the rest of my property,
adding some drainage

maybe even the combo that comes with the FEL and backhoe attached
I generally buy used equipment, but since I plan on making a long term investment here, I am considering buying new,

1. Don't get it w/o a FEL
2. Usually renting a mini-ex is better than buying a backhoe

If your comfortable with buying used limp with the JD and be prepared to search CL, auctions etc. Also take a long hard look at Messicks and Barlow's, they are quality dealerships who deliver good tractors. Often people find buying from Barlows is well worth the delivery charge.

I looked for about 2 months in 2009 before I found my B7610, and about 5 months before I bought my M4700 this January. The bargains are out there you just have to be able to look and pounce. You should EASILY be able to get a ride for < $20K.
Messicks has
Used Kioti CK30
a Kioti 2012, 30 Hp.4 wd. Hydro, 72" mid mount mower, Loader, SSL Q.A. bucket, 41 Hrs for $15.9K

That leaves thousands for implements.

Good luck

 

[jeepcoma]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions so far! Let me try to answer some of the questions that came up. In general, I suppose at this point I'm not really hung up on a specific machine, but more looking for generalities about the class of machine I should be looking for and researching. I'm not focusing on new or used, but researching new just so I know where to start looking (and since I can't count on finding used, I should be prepared to wisely use my budget and get the best I can new). I like the idea of buying used, finding out what I like vs not and need vs not, reselling it, then getting something more specialized based on what I learn. That may just end up based on availability of used in my area.

I think, but am not certain yet, that something along the lines of either the JD 2000 series or 3000 series is about the size and power I should be looking at? The advantages of the 2000 being the smaller size and better maneuverability (helpful in the woods and for mowing), plus lighter weight resulting in less compaction. And it's cheaper all around, leaving more money for (also cheaper) implements. The 3000 has the potential for more power (there is some overlap) and comfort (like a cab), has heavier duty capabilities, and is bigger and heavier. My question is, is there anything the 3000 can do that the 2000 can't, or is it mostly a matter of getting it done faster? (and I'd even apply that question to the 1000 series) For example, 2032R vs 3320. Both pretty similar power levels (~25 PTO). The 3005 has power between the two 2000 series, so what is my advantage there? Heck, both the 2000 series have more lift and loader capacity.

Honestly, MOST of the time I'm going to be using this for mowing. I would like to till and seed with it, but that's not an every-weekend usage. And, I have some projects I'd like to tackle, but they are going to take me a while anyway. So, speed of some of the other tasks (backhoe for instance) isn't really a top priority, if I am honest with myself as to what I'll actually be using this for.

How many horses are you planning on and what type of hay are you going to be feeding? Small squares, big squares or big rounds?

That's still an open question. We've got a six stall barn, but I think three is a more realistic number. We've done everything from ponies to shires in the past, and don't really have a preference at this point as to what breed we want. May even try to rescue a few. When it comes to fence building, I'll plan for the worst and make it as strong as anything I think would end up there. There are two small squares, comprising about an acre total directly adjacent to the barn. On the other side of the house are two giant squares, about 5.5 acres total. This backs onto the stream.

From what I've been reading, trying to hay this isn't such a good idea (at least not buying my own equipment to do), so I'm thinking it will be better instead to simply till the land and plant seeds and use it for pasture. I may eventually try to convert some of the land to a round pen or arena, but for now I want to simply enjoy the large open space!

Sorry but I've run out of time, I've been sitting here reading and drinking my coffee but have to run to work. I'll try to reply to the rest later! Piston, thanks for those links on time estimation, that was exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Grandad4]

Based on your acreage, I recommended 6 ft. implements, which would nominally require 35 or more horsepower at the pto. I think the models you mentioned are going to confine you to 5 ft. implements, meaning more time mowing, etc. Up to you, but I think you need more tractor than that.

Also up to you, but many seem to find their dollar buys more when the equipment has another color of paint besides green. Not a knock on that brand (Deere does offer fine products), but a little shopping always calibrates the budgetary issues better, no matter what you're buying. For example, you might find a larger tractor that would handle 6 ft. implements would be in the same price range as the ones you've mentioned if it were a different brand.

Any farmers in the area that would do the hay on your place, either for shares or purchase? That's pretty common in places where there are still small acreage fields from 19th century farms, etc.

 

[newbury]

Definitely stay high on the HP for horses. You will be lifting many things, especially building a bridge strong enough for the tractor with implements.

One thing to keep in mind is if you do buy JD they are easier to sell than say a Branson or Montana for example.

Another thing to consider is the feline aspect - Cat 1 or Cat 2? The crossover is about 40HP plus. A Cat 2 capable tractor will handle Cat 1 implements with ease and $2 bushings. Not as easy to go the other way.

 

[mud23609]

If you're not going to be handling large bales and mowing is the big concern than the 2000 or 3000 series would be plenty of machine for you. That being said. I've handled bales with a ford 3000 in the past (40 plus hp) and wouldn't want to do it again. Not that it didn't have the power it just flat out didn't have the weight to do it safely.

The smallest tractor I use for that task now is a 2002 TN75D New Holland that I picked up this winter for 21k with 3400 hours on it. Its about the perfect size for what I do with it (and the cab is great to have in the winter) but I wouldn't go a whole lot smaller for handling bales on the loader.

Take a look at tractorhouse.com I think you will find a variaty of units well under your price range that would work quite well for you. Often its worth driving a little farther as well. Mine was 250 miles from home. Same basic tractor at a local dealer was 27k and it cost me 650 bucks to get it here.

In your shoes I would look at tractors in the 15K and under range AND get a new dedicated mower instead. Yea its one more engine to maintain but tractors that actually work well in farm use don't work so great cutting the yard.

 

[Lt CHEG]

I'm totally the wrong guy to ask about right sizing the tractor to your needs as I just bought a New Holland Powerstar 4.75 for 6.5 acres. Granted my needs included good road speed but otherwise my tractor is overkill. Having said that I don't have a lot of time available to mow my property and like to keep the grass short so it is very nice to be able to run bigger implements and run them faster. You can get big jobs done with a small tractor it just takes more time. In my case even though I like my seat time I am willing to pay a premium to be able to finish my work fast. Sometimes it is worth it to pay more for a bigger tractor to get things done quicker. Just something to think about.

 

[Piston]

I'm totally the wrong guy to ask about right sizing the tractor to your needs as I just bought a New Holland Powerstar 4.75 for 6.5 acres. Granted my needs included good road speed but otherwise my tractor is overkill. Having said that I don't have a lot of time available to mow my property and like to keep the grass short so it is very nice to be able to run bigger implements and run them faster. You can get big jobs done with a small tractor it just takes more time. In my case even though I like my seat time I am willing to pay a premium to be able to finish my work fast. Sometimes it is worth it to pay more for a bigger tractor to get things done quicker. Just something to think about.

ATTABOY LT! :cool2:

I must have missed your thread that has all sorts of pictures, information, and review on your new 4.75. Could you post a link to it here? I'd love to hear more about that without highjacking this thread.

 

[Coyote machine]

I have my second new tractor, a Kioti DK-40 se/hst which suits my 21 + acres of woods, old pastures, lawn, pond with bridge that easily handles the weight of the tractor. I use a used Scag Wildcat, 61" deck with bagger system to cut the lawn(s). I have a couple of other mowers, like DR.Brush mower with lawn deck too.
I agree with those who say try to buy bigger thn you THINK you need before finding out later you wish you'd gone bigger. I found this out the hard way- went from DK-35se/hst to Dk-40 se/hst and gained one cylinder, and about 1750+ lbs of loader lift. Huge difference- would never go back to smaller unit- nothing wrong with it- just not properly sized to my needs. Cost me a LOT of $$$ to do a trade with my selling dealer to move up 5HP (nominal).
Kioti DK-40's with HST are rugged, weigh enough to run a hoe, or whatever you might encounter on what is referred to around here as a 'hobby farm'.
Would having a separate mini-EX be nice?! Sure enough! But do I really need one- no. I can hire out and have done so, for over $250K worth of work on this property and the one I'm flipping next door.

A couple of pros on big machines are way more productive than I could ever be- but there is a big associated expense too.

Check out the DK-40 and up series of Kiotis in addition to other brands.
Good luck.

 

[cowski]

sounds like you need a lawn mower and a tractor.horses equal fence building.you need a 40 horse utility tractor for the post hole digger moving hay bales and 6 ft bush hogging.for a older tractor i like the mf 150 ,165,245-275 if you add a loader international utilities have more hydraulics.for a newer one a jd 5105.i have had good luck with cub cadet lawn mowers.

 

[Lt CHEG]

ATTABOY LT! :cool2:

I must have missed your thread that has all sorts of pictures, information, and review on your new 4.75. Could you post a link to it here? I'd love to hear more about that without highjacking this thread.

I know... I've been bad and haven't posted pictures. I had a big case occur at work shortly before I took delivery of the new tractor and my whole office has been swamped working on it. I did post a thread about how much I like the new Alamo SHD88 flail cutter but never went into much detail. When I get back from vacation I hope to post some pictures and a more thorough review of my tractor.

Sorry for the thread hijack, now back to our regularly scheduled programming

 

[BraveheartGN]

Was in a similar situation about a year and a half ago. Needed to get a tractor to care for my childhood home horse farm, about 13 acres, a bit hilly in NY. Guy who brush hogged the place recommended at least 40 hp. Picked up a Ford 3000 about 48 years old off CL for about $4000 with an FEL. It has I think about 49 hp and 40 hp off the PTO (diesel) and I was concerned at first that it was a bit high in hp, that it was old, and only 2WD - and I am pretty much a newbie about this stuff. I paired it with a 6 foot Mott flail mower and a 6 foot box blade (also found on CL) and I have to say the work that I have been able to do with it is incredible. The property, which was pretty run down, needed better pasture management, so I thought the primary task would be mowing. A year and a half later the grass looks better than it ever has. I discovered all kinds of additional uses for the equipment - removing old fencing, disposing of manure, lifting junk onto the truck to get to the dump, preparing brush fires for burning, yanking out multiflora bushes by the roots (a particular scourge here). The box blade is fantastic for reconditioning old fence line, smoothing the gravel driveway, and taking the teeth out I was able to plow out the barn this winter of about three feet of snow. My total investment so far