Vehicle overheating

[butzkeg]

I'll try to make a long story short.

My 97 Venture began overheating, low coolant light would come on intermittantly so I took it to the dealership. It ran for maybe 20 miles with the overheating problem. There was no coolant in the oil when I brought it in. I've got 127k miles on it now.

The dealer called said it was fixed, about $950 to rebuilt coolant system (hoses, gaskets and valves). I started it after the repair (still in the dealers lot) and the check engine light came on, so I drove it back into the repair shop. They checked it, and said a cylinder misfired, but everything is ok.

I left the dealer, and 2 miles down the road, the car overheats. I call the dealer and they say to bring it right back. Did so, and the coolant was bubbling in the resevoir, apparently air in the lines. So they decide to drive it around the building to bleed the lines. Then they take it to the service department and observe. As they observe, a head gasket blows.

They tell me they'll credit the coolant system cost and charge me for the head gasket replacement, $1450. I pick the van up after repair and it starts very hard. Call the dealer, they say drive it for week, it'll clear up-probably some water or something.

The prob of starting hard never gets better, and I notice the Low Coolant light comes on again. I take the van back, they say the water pump is bad and an injector is stuck wide open. I get the pump replaced ($200), and they put it in a bottle of injector cleaner (the injecter is unrelated to anything they did, they're claiming).

Ok, was the water pump the original problem? Should they have noticed this rather than have the head gaskets blow? Could they have plugged the injector? It's still starting hard, and getting poor gas mileage. They had just flushed the injections system 20k ago, and replaced the fuel filter. I wonder if I should only have had to pick up the tab for the coolant system rebuid, plus the water pump. What do you guys think?

 

[rf33]

I think that you have had quite a run of bad luck there. Other than that, I am not really sure what should be their / your responsibility. It sure does seem to be quite a coincidence that one thing gets fixed by this dealer, another goes bad. I would be quite interested to hear how they would explain this incredible series of coincidences. I suppose that with 127k miles on a gas engine, the engine might just be getting tired. I guess that without any evidence to the contrary, you might just have to accept their explanations, but it sure does seem unusual. I guess they did agree to credit you for the coolant system cost, so perhaps they are doing their best in this situation??

 

[butzkeg]

I'm not really sure either, but there are so many people here that know a lot more about engines than I ever will.

I kind of look at it like I got $2600 worth of work done for $1650.

I just really wonder if the water pump may have been the cause of the blown head gasket. That and the injector problem being related to their work. The engine ran fine when I dropped it off, bad when I picked it up.

 

[rf33]

I would not be surprised if the bad water pump caused the blown head gasket, but I think that the real culprit would be the bad water pump caused the engine to overheat, which might have caused the blown head gasket. I am not an auto expert, but I think that the blown head gasket was likely the result of the engine being driven while overheating.

I think that getting $2600 worth of work done for $1650 is a good way to look at this experience. I suppose that even if they should have noticed the faulty water pump, you likely would have spent about the same $$ as the head gasket issue probably was coming anyways since you drove the car so little after getting it back from the shop and before the head gasket blew.

 

[Mrwurm]

Gm vehicles with 3.4 v6 as in your venture and 3.1 v6 engines have a problem with intake manifold gaskets. GM officially denies this problem but most mechanics know about it. The gaskets are made of plastic with an imbedded rubber seal. The gaskets crack around 40,000 miles. Sometimes oil and coolant leak on the ground and you can catch the problem early. Often though, they leak oil and coolant internally and the coolant fouls the oil doing major damage to engine parts. Oil gets into the coolant also, but I'm not sure if it could have caused the problems you described. Believe it or not, I am on my third GM vehicle with this problem. (out of warranty) Some of my co-workers have been stung by this also. GM customer service says they have never heard of this problem, but my local mechanic says he fixes a few of these every month. Cost to repair at GM dealer $800. Cost to repair at local garage $485. I have fixed this problem in my 98 Venture, 99 Century, and sold a 97 Buick back to the dealer to avoid fixing a third.
Jerry

 

[butzkeg]

I would have gone to a local garage, except that I haven't found a reputable place within any reasonable driving distance.

I've had a lot of trouble with the coolant system though, as I had it flushed twice prior to the rebuild. It would always get all gunked up and start to get paste like.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

Greg:
The bubbling in the reservoir suggests a head gasket leak. I've lost some head gaskets, and normal terminology is "a blown gasket," but I don't know that I've heard of anyone watching or hearing one blow. The usual symptoms are overheating and loss of coolant, which may or may not get into the oil, dependent of the location of the leak.
It is important that the head be carefully examined for warp or cracks, and a cleanup mill done to make sure the gasket surface is flat.
Overheating can cause other problems. I don't know your particular engine, so don't know what they might be. (On a couple of Chev V-8's, overheating was cured, but was followed by timing chain failure and trashed valves. I still don't know the connection, but I've had it happen twice.) You may want to do a web search. There are boards on a lot of different mechanical issues, with considerable expertise. (Not as much as TBN, of course.)
The traditional failure mode of a water pump is to start leaking. It is unusual for it to stop circulating and cause overheating. The overheating, if water pump related, is generally due to low coolant. Water fump damage can be caused by the overheahing itself, if it runs dry.
The problem sounds to me like a head gasket from the beginning, but I've been fooled by a lot of automotive symptoms.
Sorry about your misfortune. With luck, however, repairs will be successful.

 

[butzkeg]

Charlie, I like your answer of the head gasket problem up front a lot, because it makes me feel like I got a great deal.

The dealer said they double checked all the engine stuff to make sure there were no warps or cracks.

I suppose this is a reality of driving so many miles.

I've been through some of the car sites out there, and cars.com is setup very similar to TBN. After reading posts here for about a year though, I'm starting to believe if somebody on this site can't answer a question, then it can't be answered.

 

[Wingnut]

I guess looking at it that way works, if it makes you feel better .... but I have to wonder just how much of it was really necessary. Based on your commentary, it was obvious they fixed something that didn't need fixing (just why Brake Depot just got busted in Michigan) ... which really shocks me seeing all the diagnostic tools that they have available now. Heck, the computer can just about predict your waist size after a chinese meal.

I had a situation wherein I had a warranty claim (after all these years and Toyotas). The handle on the rear driver side door snapped clean off. They replaced it last summer. Everything was fine, I thought ... until I accidentally discovered that that door no longer locked ... in any manner (manually, electrically or anything short of welding it). Took it back to the dealer and they couldn't fix it and the service manager ... as he's telling me they had to order in a new lock mechanism, tries to tell me that it couldn't have resulted from the replacement of the handle. Hmm ... lock works ... handle replaced .... lock doesn't work. Yeah, you're right ... couldn't be connected. I'll be interested to see what kind of "agreement" they offer on settling this one.

Anyway ... good luck with the Venture ... hope the problems now solved.

 

[bgott]

I think you're the victim of a chain reaction. You probably had the thermostat stick as the original problem. They fixed that and replaced the hoses and other stuff because at 127k they are shot. You ought to replace all the hoses and belts and thermostat at 60 to 70,000 miles. The head gasket and water pump were destroyed from the original overheating. You drove it 20 miles hot, that is guaranteed to blow a head gasket. It boiled the water out in 2 miles when you picked it up. I think you had the blown head gasket and the tech either didn't check it or he needed to flag the job for that weeks pay.If he'd reported the blown gasket he wouldn't have flagged the job until the gasket was done. He durn sure didn't test drive it after he replaced the hoses. The misfire should have also told them it had a problem. That water pump, if I remember right, has a plastic impeller. Overheating melts the impeller. The injector probably falls under the s%#t happens! catagory. It would have been impossible to diagnose the blown head gasket without restoring the integrity of the cooling system unless you had water in the oil and even then, there is the intake manifold pattern failure that someone else mentioned. I've had a bunch of these types of things happen to me in my career as a mechanic. I would have checked for the blown head gasket before giving the car back, though, and would have caught the bad injector, probably after replacing the head gasket. You see, I know overheating causes blown head gaskets and I test drive!