Ventless wall mount natural gas heater

[lzicc]

Another thing I am thinking about, how many fumes, gases and soot are being put into the air when I burn the fireplace? It is wood burner insert, but it still give these byproducts off.

 

[hawkeye08]

We had a pellet stove for heat when we built our current house. It heated the whole house (we like the bedrooms a bit cooler so just closed those doors, partially or all the way, depending on how cool it was). When I was traveling all the time for work, my wife had too much to do, so we decided to go propane. We had put in propane for cooking and wanted to change over to it for heat also. We tried a ventless unit, the moisture and odor were unacceptable. We replaced it with a nice propane stove that vents outside and also pulls outside air in for combustion. It has been heating the house for 21 years now, had to replace the thermocouple last year. Blower needs to be replaced in the next few years perhaps, it is getting louder.

Our house is SIP (structural insulated panels for exterior walls, floor and roof) and very tight. I think if it was only heating one room, not the whole house and we had "looser" house, it would be fine. We are looking at a mini split (for backup heat, but also for AC in summer) for the main part of the house.

 

[lzicc]

I got the heater installed Friday and started using it. It works really well. I'm only using it when I am in the family room. It's a 20,000 BTU unit. I was going to go to the 30,000 but I think that would have been overkill. So far, no smell at all from it. Warms the room up nicely.

Saturday I made a fire in the fireplace/woodstove insert and noticed that gives off a good amount of a smell compared to the ventless gas stove. It seems like the ventless is so much cleaner compared to the fireplace now. This is going to workout fine between using the fireplace on the weekends and the ventless in the evenings. Thanks Jack for the push on this. I am very happy with the results.

 

[Jack Murdock]

my pleasure. Gas is about the only thing I know LP or natural.

 

[Rebeldad1]

Interesting reading im sure for many of us. It would be great when you say you have one or installed one to let us know what ONE means?
Model make size.. Thanks

 

[Rebeldad1]

I have sold serviced and installed vent free heaters and fireplaces for over 20 years hear in NY and New England . The downsides of VF heaters or fireplaces are : odors ( pets or contaminated air quality ) and moisture. For every 100,000 btu of energy ( 1 therm of natural gas ) you put 1 gallon of water vapor into the atmosphere. So if you do not install a huge fireplace or use it as a sole source of heat you should be happy. Now no implied disrespect but a dirty house= dirty air. Lots of pet hair = dirty air. Dirty air = smelly heat. I have heated my basement with a VF heater for years with no issues. Make sure that the fireplace you choose is equipped with an ODS ( oxygen depletion system ). I would stick with brands you can get parts for as well Empire Comfort Systems ( made in Illinois ) being my favorite.

I am in need of something propane to heat my barn. I have an area that is 30 X 25 low ceiling non insulated. Just need something that takes the chill off. Anything come to mind?

 

[3gunr]

i have been using the orange flame heater in my 1000 sq ft cabin for yrs with no issues. no smell or soot , i love it. it is also cheap to run.

 

[AHNC]

Jack was a customer of mine years ago and a respected friend still. We are both fitters. You will always find him with a piece of soapstone in his pocket. He knows whereof he speaks. Other than his choice of tractor color, I agree with about everything he has said here. VF htrs are equipped with oxygen depletion systems (ODS) pilots. The air we breath is 20.9% O2. If you run a VF htr without adequate make-up air the unit can deplete the O2 in the space. Once the O2 level gets into the 18-18.5% range the pilot flame kind stalls & feathers off the t-couple and the unit goes into a hard lock-out. Some complain of moisture problems with VF. I will say that they are running them incorrectly or they are oversized. They are intended as supplemental heaters. Jack gave you the numbers on moisture inclusion in combustion by-products. I lived in MA when Jack was my customer and all of my wooden chairs would fall apart in the winter months because cold air cannot hold moisture. A little vent free heater improved the climate in the house by adding a little moisture. Whatever is airborne, paint/finishing products, cleaning products, perfume, po pourri (sp) will go through that heater and whatever it smelled like going in I guarantee it will not come out smelling better. Paint a room with a VF htr in it and it will knock your socks off. Keep an IR unit clean and it will not give you problems. Clean them with compressed air and pay attention to the pilot assembly. Dust and crap can...will over time, build up on the inlet to the pilot. A can of compressed air will do the trick. I prefer infra-red units over blue flame as the flame is hotter down in the meniscus of the plaque. I would not have a vent free fireplace or log set, period. I won't pick up an odor from a BF or IR unit but the log-set and fireplace people sell "big flame" and as a result they are in the 30-40 kbtu range. There are millions them out there, but I can walk into a house or a hotel lobby (Rutland, VT Holiday Inn for instance) and within 4' inside I can tell there is a VF fireplace running. Jack is also correct that Empire is the best wall hung plaque unit on the market today. I used to sell the Rinnai vent free IR and BF and they were outstanding. The cheap Chinese units hit the market in the early '00's and the large southern LP companies (the biggest VF market in the USA) beat a mad path to cheap. They got what they were looking for and today beg Rinnai to bring back the IR's. The very best IR on the market today is the Rinnai 510 (5-10kbtu) and the 824 (8-24kbtu). They are floor mounts. I occasionally run the old Rinnai Bantam or Glo-Ray IR's I keep close, but my go to is the 824. Modulating gas valve and blower, cool to the touch and quiet. They are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. They are an excellent value.
To the OP, you say you cannot vent a unit in the location of your basement. I would suggest that you look at the Rinnai direct vent wall furnaces. They have vent extension kits available that will allow you to vent up the wall and out. Again, they are not inexpensive, but you get what you pay for. Since '91 when I introduced that product to the New England market I would not be without them in my home, basement, garage and shop. Check them out.
Merry Christmas, Jack and everyone else!

Jack