Want to get into haying - need some advice.

[ddivinia]

I bought a 2210 with all the goodies last year when we bought our new place: 20 acres. The 2210 works for 95% of the stuff I do and it does an awesome job for yard, landscaping, etc. The turf tires in the field can be a pain (especially when you bury it). It does take a long time to mow 20 acres with a LX4. I am going to keep the 2210 and get another tractor.

Also, I want to bale my place. I have people bugging me for hay and I am going to put some cows out on my 160 acres. Baling hay is good for my ag exemption on my place - a nice savings on real estate taxes. I have checked into having others do it and I can't find anybody that wants to mess with my too small of a place. It would be much cheaper to have somebody else do it, but it does not look like it is going to happen.

I bleed green, but would entertain other options. The range on tractor is huge.

5303 - $15,900 (I wish they had it in 4wd)
5205 4wd - $21,700 (I need to beat them down on price) Non-turbo = less power, but less stuff to break?
5425 - $28K - not sure it is worth the extrea
5525 with Cab - $41K

MX8 for a shredder?

265 cutter?
702 rake?
348 baler?

front end loader?

Square vs. round bale (hay will be sold for horses more than likely).

Was thinking tractor and shredder this year. Get the grass in shape over the next year and start haying next year.

Is the $100,000 write off still good for 2005? Up toi $100K a year in accelerated depreciation right? Is it going to be around for 2006?

4wd vs 2wd?
cab or not?
How much hp?

There is a lot of information on the forum - I looked over every thread in the ag section the other night - great info.

I know I asked a bunch of questions and probably didn't provide enough backrgound. I appreciate your input.

Regards,
D.

 

[burnetma]

Ddivinia,

You have opened a whole can of worms. I too am just getting into my own more modern haying operation (my family has done it for years with antiques), but my needs are probably greatly different than yours. For example, I am contending with some significantly hilly land and multiple small fields (most are 2-6 acres each broken up by stone wall or hedge row) with only one larger field of ~26 acres and hay storage in an old 2 story post and beam barn. Also my tractor must be versatile enough to do everything including moving snow off a steep hillside driveway, thus I purchased a smaller 4WD utility tractor (JD 5420). So I think I have more questions than answers at this point.

A couple of questions:
1. How much of the 160 acres do you plan on haying?
2. How much labor do you have available to you? (square or round, see also item 5)
3. What is the condition of the fields?
4. What type of forage is planted or is it just pasture land that will be hayed? (questions 4 & 5 are to determine value of hay for horses and approximate yields)
5. Where do you plan to store the hay? Do you have a pole barn on or near the hay fields with at least 15 foot over head clearance? (Option of using a New Holland Automatic Bale Wagon with small square bales)
6. Do you want your haying tractor to be a utility tractor also? If so what types of tasks do you need it to do?

 

[plumboy]

You'll want to go square for sure.I dont know anybody that feeds horses with round.Maybe a feild full of scrubs or mustangs.20 acres is going to take alot of storage space so youll have to keep that in mind and the tax deal is gone.I say go for it but be advised the weather vs haying thing is not fun until your done.Last friday I was out til almost midnight getting a little hay up.I'm new like you and so far I love it.

 

[Egon]

If you have trouble finding a haying contractor perhaps ask yourself some questions about grass/field quality, equipment required and then do a little math.

There may be a reason for their reluctance.

Egon

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

I can't answer some of your questions. Better left to your accountant....

Hopefully I can add some input on a few of them though.

On the 348 Baler.... That's a "big boy baler"... I'd suggest a minimum of 75 HP on that one. I bought (for re-sale) one a couple summers back. I tried it out before selling. I hooked it to a 60 HP tractor. It liked to whipped that poor tractor in heavy hay.

How are you fixed for "labor"? Unless you have ample help at times you can DEPEND on them, square baling is a nightmare. I made the switch to a bale accumulator several years back. (Steffens brand) It bunch's up 10 bales in a square, then drops them. A grapple on my loader tractor picks up the 10-bale stack and lifts them onto a wagon. Eliminates the need for all the field help.

Cabs are nice.....REAL NICE!

There is no such thing as too much HP.

If you're square baling, find plenty of wagons. Load them, back 'em in to the barn/shed and UNLOAD when you have time. Eliminates spending time unloading when there's hay on the ground. (and exposed to the weather)

TWo words..... DISC MOWER.

If you're selling hay, and contemplating round baling, smaller rounds sell better. Most people buying rounds for horses, prefer 4' X 4' bales for the convenience of moving them. They can be loaded in a pick-up truck, and moved easily with smaller tractors. I sell them for as much (or more) than neighbors get for 6' X 6' bales, and I get many more per acre.

If you're so inclined, the best SMALLER round baler I've ran across is the Vermeer 5400 "Rebel". Low HP requirement, VERY well made, Easy to get parts/service when needed, and extremely dependable.

My favorite small square baler.....John Deere 336.
My favorite rake......New Holland 256
I've tried several used disc mowers, not really settling on a favorite YET, but tend to like New Holland

Good luck, and happy hayin'

Bill

 

[plumboy]

ddivinia,it looks like the tax deal still runs through 2005 but I think it has some new rules.
check out www.taxpertsltd.com to check it out.

Something else to keep in mind while you do the math on your haying venture.Your equipment is an investment,buy smart and keep it in good condition and it holds value well.
You cant really count profit untill you add your equity that you have in the machinery.And with posts like indydirtfarmer it will make 'buying smart' easier.

 

[JESSE1]

Here's a picture of my new disc mower- a Kuhn GMD 700 GenII. It's the second Kuhn mower I've had. This one is a 7 disc that cuts a 9' swath. It's mounted on a John Deere 6400 85 hp tractor. I also bought a Kuhn SR110 ten wheel rake. I cut my hay last week and they perform very well.

 

[JESSE1]

Here's a picture of what Indydirtfarmer is talking about regarding large round bales. I had to buy extra hay last January. These were a 5x6 bale that probably weighed 1800#'s each. I use a John Deere 535 baler that rolls the same size bale but I use all the hay I bale. If I was selling it I'd probably use a smaller size round baler.

 

[JESSE1]

I could only load 8 rolls per load.

 

[ddelawaredale]

I'm getting back into the hay business after a nine year break. If you have the sickness like I do there is just some thing about the smell of alfalfa curing, that works better than Viagra. If you don't have much haying experience I would start with a grass hay. you can generaly survive a rain if you have a tedder. and it isn't so time critical. Get a moisture meter or a truly experienced person to teach you the ropes. They aint kidding about that spontanious combustion thing. Square bales are definately the way to go if you intend to market to horse people. Getting the help to move them is another matter if you have access to high school kids about one in fifty is worth taking in. That's part of the reason I do this is to teach them there is some thing more to life than the mall. I usually start at $15 an hour and every time the boy in question is there when I need them after that it's a dollar an hour raise up to $25. that might seem steep but I've fired several after the third wagon and sent them packing. Right now I have a pool of about 5 that are really efficient and even at what seems like to some to be high pay they make me money and are willing to drive hard when thunderheads are moving in.
I have an inline baler in the barn that I like. I still have my old Massey 124 for emergency use. I bought a disc bine from new idea. On the mower subject if you get a disc bine make sure you look at the cutter head and get one designed so each disc unit is seperate. Some of the earlier ones had gears that connected them all and I've head horror stories of a rock or stump breaking a gear and loose metal essentially wiping out the whole cutter bar drive internally. I understand some of the early new hollands exhibited this trait. I don't know how many acres you intend on doing but 60 to 80 horses are usually enough for a haying tractor and a smaller but quick moving one for raking and tedding works good. enough wagons to get it up behind the baler work great ;for me the problem usually isn't getting it on the wagons its getting them unloaded and back into the field, the barn just sucks the life out of help. Enough wagons means you only need to hire 2 head to stack on the wagons behind the baler. Buy the best baler you can afford because every thing else is meaningless it can be cut by the finest mower and raked perfectly but when the balers broke the only thing you can do is cry with weather coming in. Well that's my 25 cents <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font>