water pipe leak/peroxide?

[Dutch445]

we have peroxide injection for our home water system, i dilute the 7% with water,
so it's really only 3.5%.
today we had a leak at a copper fitting for the injection system where it meets
the 3/4 in copper main water pipe. i removed the T for fear it may be bad, and was
surprised to see the pipe downstream of the T badly corroded, yikes.

does anybody have any idea if this peroxide system is causing this?
here are pictures of the fitting with the holes that leaked,
and then the pipe after i removed the T

 

[fried1765]

we have peroxide injection for our home water system, i dilute the 7% with water,
so it's really only 3.5%.
today we had a leak at a copper fitting for the injection system where it meets
the 3/4 in copper main water pipe. i removed the T for fear it may be bad, and was
surprised to see the pipe downstream of the T badly corroded, yikes.

does anybody have any idea if this peroxide system is causing this?
here are pictures of the fitting with the holes that leaked,
and then the pipe after i removed the T

View attachment 604428

View attachment 604429

View attachment 604430

It's logical.
What else could it be?

 

[Happy1406]

Peroxide is an oxidizer, just like sodium hypochlorite or common bleach. In terms of chemical compatibility with hydrogen peroxide, copper is listed as “Do Not Use”.

Google Hydrogen Peroxide compatibility....

 

[RNeumann]

I’ve seen copper that has warn through from years of water friction. This looks like it’s more than that. I’m thinking the posts above are more the culprit than simple friction.

 

[Dutch445]

i have googled about peroxide, and obviously in higher concentrations it's a different animal,
but i dilute the 7% solution with water, and i have not found anything online that supports
this, but it certainly could be what caused this. i had to put it back together with copper,
but part of me thinks if i could get a section of plastic in that area it might not be
a problem down the road. past my expansion tank they have used plastic to make the
loop out to the softener and back..

 

[MacLawn]

Wow. Yeah, I'd stop the peroxide.

 

[Gary Fowler]

i have googled about peroxide, and obviously in higher concentrations it's a different animal,
but i dilute the 7% solution with water, and i have not found anything online that supports
this, but it certainly could be what caused this. i had to put it back together with copper,
but part of me thinks if i could get a section of plastic in that area it might not be
a problem down the road. past my expansion tank they have used plastic to make the
loop out to the softener and back..

As long as the process doesn't create high heat, then plastic pipe would be my choice. I witnessed a catastrophe in a power plant once where an acid injection point was engineered with plastic pipe. The pipe melted in just a few minutes of operation. They then installed carbon steel and within hours it was dissolved, 304 stainless steel also failed in a few days. I seem to recall that they finally used Hastelloy or Incoloy pipe for about 40 feet to resolve the problem.

I wouldn't think that peroxide injection would create a lot of heat, so go with the plastic. Just about any fitting made from steel/copper can be found in plastic. You might consider using CPVC rather than PVC since the CPVC is rated for up to 200F and is much stronger than standard PVC for water lines.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Does your water contain Hydrogen Sulfide? If it does, in sufficient quantities, it is a very corrosive substance, especially on metals. I don't think peroxide or sulfide either one will attack PVC. I believe concentrated peroxide was...maybe still is... used in the meat packing industry to remove flesh from bones. It is extremely powerful in high concentrations; and was known as "Albone".

 

[oosik]

My question. Why are you injecting hydrogen peroxide? The main health reason for having hydrogen peroxide or chlorine in a potable water supply is to kill potential dangerous bacteria OR to eliminate odors. Municipal water supplies that draw from river, lake, stream or enpoundment will have chlorine injection. You never know when a dead "something" may end up in the lake and the chlorine will kill any potential bacteria or pathogens. It will also eliminate odors.

Have you ever had your water tested? Maybe you don't need the injection system.

If you do need the peroxide injection - use CVCP plastic pipe. Its heavy duty, chemical resistant and can be purchased in types that are resistant to higher water temperatures - if required.

 

[Dutch445]

i spoke with the local water company today, i have used them for a couple water softeners
at different homes i have owned, and i buy the "nutra sul" from them. my belief is
that the water had sulfer water, so they treated it with the peroxide.
he did say that when he installs new systems, he uses either pex of the cvcp plastic,
mostly due to the cost of copper and time to install. but he can't say that he has seen
peroxide going into copper.
i think in the future if i need to draw down my system again for any reason, (and hopefully
not on a sunday holiday) i will replace the section form the injection system thru the
softener we have with all plastic, cvcp.
it probably wouldn't hurt to have a raw water test done.

 

[oosik]

I have more questions. Are you on your own private well or a local water company. Do you have a faucet where the water can be sampled/ tasted prior to the peroxide injection.

I would recommend that you have both bacterial and chemical analysis run on the raw water. Check with your local Health Dept. They may be able to provide free bacterial analysis. I doubt they would provide chemical analysis. They can provide information on local companies that will run chemical analysis. Water softener companies might provide partial chemical analysis.

If you need assistance with the results - discuss with your local Health Dept or local water company.

 

[Dutch445]

we are on a private drilled well, no sure way to know depth, but guestimate
probably 300-400' down.

no spigot before any treatment, would have to bypass the softener,
and unplug injection system to clear water system to get a raw sample,

there is a local water testing company in town, i'd have to ask what
they can test for other than bacteria.

will put a test on the "to do" list

on another note, after mother's day dinner with kids/grandkids here,
(no water) i was able to reassemble and solder the fittings etc and back in
business, water was restored. obviously a little funky at first with the
disruption and drawdown.
after i fill the system and purge the air, i start doing dishes,
wife goes to give the g'kids a bath, and runs out of hot water,
i blame it on dishes, laundry, etc.... come to find out the
water heater had not cycled to heat any water. it would
fire the propane burner, for 2 seconds, and stop... UGHHH
played with that for another couple hours, clean clean clean
the flame sensor (google/youtube) but couldn't get it to stay lit.
finally went to bed thinking i needed to chase parts this morning,
before i did i went down and tried it again, and FIRE! all good,
heater cycled, i showered, and it cycled again.
chalk this up to the spray of water in this small basement closet
in the laundry room, sort of created this mist that must have messed
with the control board of the hot water heater.
but all good today, thank god!

 

[oosik]

For any bacterial or chemical testing you will need to sample the raw water. A simple question - do YOU know why there is a peroxide injector on your water system?

I DO know what you mean about those propane sensors. They are completely necessary but can be a real PITA. Glad it's finally operating.

Any local water testing company worth its salt should have a "standard" chemical test. This will vary by the area. Here, nitrogen, is one of the most important chemicals they test for. Due to widespread application of nitrogen fertilizer. At your location it would, most likely, be completely different.

Good that you got the water system back in operation also. This will give you time to check for potential sources of water testing.

 

[teejk]

There should be a dedicated testing tap where the well pipe enters the house. As for the peroxide, I've never heard of such a system but it's obviously there for a reason. I know some wells have to be "shocked" from time to time but that is chlorine.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Was curious myself; seems peroxide is used an odor eliminator, particularly for sulfides in general and Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) in particular. As mentioned before, H2S is very corrosive, has a detectable odor in very small concentrations and can be very toxic.

Four Reasons Why Hydrogen Peroxide Water Treatment Is Best

 

[Dutch445]

Was curious myself; seems peroxide is used an odor eliminator, particularly for sulfides in general and Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) in particular. As mentioned before, H2S is very corrosive, has a detectable odor in very small concentrations and can be very toxic.

Four Reasons Why Hydrogen Peroxide Water Treatment Is Best

my guess is sulfer water, again these systems were all in place when i bought the house. i replaced the water softener with a newer version, and will at some point try to get a raw water sample.
next time i have a draw down, i will replace some of this copper with plastic, and put a tap before any treatment enters the water for raw water access.

 

[teejk]

my guess is sulfer water, again these systems were all in place when i bought the house. i replaced the water softener with a newer version, and will at some point try to get a raw water sample.
next time i have a draw down, i will replace some of this copper with plastic, and put a tap before any treatment enters the water for raw water access.

Interesting link provided (linking to an outfit that sells such systems so take it for what it's worth). A friend owns some land on a lake "up north" and he says the lake water "stinks" so they haul their own water. You in a high iron area like he is?

 

[DIYOrangeDave]

Well I don’t have a peroxide injection system and my copper pipes don’t last very long. Since I moved in I have replaced every bit of copper in the house with Pex. Easier to work with and is not dissolved by minerals in my water. The holes in your pipes look a lot like mine when I replaced them. Hard water blues ...

 

[dodge man]

I also agree with the idea it may be from erosion. The injection just gradually over years hitting the pipe and eroding it away. No way to know for sure. Most of the local companies know the best way to treat the local well water. I’d keep using the peroxide if it’s doing it’s job.

 

[5030]

Interesting..

This is going to be a rather long reply...let me explain

First off, I've been injecting H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) for years in our well water. We have a deep (cased) well and we live in a Karst region, which means the deep water flows through porous limestone so it picks up not only sulfur ( which no one seems to be able to spell correctly on this thread which I find laughable) but dissolved calcium as well.

Consequently, we inject H2O2 in the raw (incoming water, allow it to 'mingle' with the incoming water in a holding tank (under pressure of course), which precipitates the sulfur and the calcium out of the water which I then remove via a commercial pleated paper cartridge in a Cumo commercial filter (they are 2 feet long btw). When the pressure differential drops across the filter (I have pressure gages on the intake as well as the discharge 10-15 psi, I change the cartridge.

H2O2 will react with dissolved (as well as visible) sulfur and cause it to solidify into a whitish paste (looks like toothpaste) that the filter media removes, to a lesser extent it will chemically react and precipitate the dissolved and visible calcium as well.

Been doing that for 20 years now and it's basically a turn key, hands off operation, other than changing filter cartridges and draining the hot water tank when I change the filter cartridges which averages about once a month.

None of the water piping ( hot or cold) is metal in the house, it's all PEX.

I buy my H2O2 in 15 gallon poly carboys and the concentration I've settled at is 1 gallon of 35% food grade H2O2 to 4 gallons of DISTILLED water, mixed in the Perastaltic (sic) pump solution container which holds 6 gallons of solution. A 15 gallon carboy of 35% will last me about a year of sulfur and calcium free well water. Mix water must be DISTILLED because ordinary water will contain various concentrations of undesireable compounds that can and will react with the H2O2 in the holding tank and render it inert.

I use a Pulsa-Feeder pump that is actuated through a variable timed switch that receives it's 'on and off' signal via one of the supply feeds to the commercial deep well pump we have (220/1 pump). The duration of injection can be adjusted to the percentage of Sulfur dioxide in the raw water though, over the years, I found the ideal duration to be about 20 seconds if injection per pump cycle.

The Pulas-Feeder comes with a supplied injector (Teflon seat) that is cleanable. The pump also employs Teflon check balls and Buna-N seats and is 100% compatible with mild concentrations of H2O2 as well as other mildly corrosive chemicals. They are widely used in chemical injection situations and they are not cheap by a long shot but 100% reliable.

I fill the Pulsa-Feeder tank about once a month depending on total water usage and I buy my H2O2 from Van Waters and Rodgers, through my pesticide-herbicide retailer.

Over 20 years now with ZERO issues and I have my well water tested by the county health department regularly and the test results always come back that the water (which I draw from an outside hose bib) is free of any contaminates or bacteria and bacteria in the water here is an ongoing issue.

Your mileage may vary but I know what my mileage is...