welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns?

   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #11  
The last two trucks I've bought have been cab & chassis. A 2004 Ford F-550, and a 2007 Dodge 3500, both with diesel engines. In the instructions to the upfitter of both trucks, it stated to remove the battery cables before welding.
 
   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #12  
To me it doesnt matter how many welding jobs have been completed on equipment without any problems as a result. I like to work on my own stuff and I am usually the one footing the bill if something breaks, catches fire, or blows up. It takes about a minute to unhook a battery cable. It could take hours to run down a electrical problem caused by a welder. Than after finding the problem, its usually not a cheap fix. After all that time and money troubleshooting and fixing the problem, it kind of makes one feel dumb for not taking the time to unhook the battery.

On our equipment at work, its standard procedure to turn off the battery before doing any welding. I had a mechanic once that turned the battery switch on, thinking he was turning it off. Did about 5 minutes of welding and burnt out over $10,000 worth of computer boards. Few months later, we where using the same machine at a different site. Had a track welder there wanting to do some rail buildup on some new track we where installing. As soon as the machine passed the spot he needed to weld on, he struck an arc. rail equipment runs on rail and the arch ran straight to the computer of the machine and shut it off. The supervisor in charge had been pushing everyone to get the job done and i had told him and the welder to wait until I got away from where he needed to make the weld, but Supervisors being Supervisors, he just couldnt wait. Another $10,000 worth of computer boards and a 64000lb piece of equipment dead on his track, might say that wasnt the result the Sup was looking for.
 
   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #13  
I don't know for sure that disconnecting the battery will prevent damage to everything or anything but it doesn't (usually) take much effort to do so and it does give you the opportunity to check out the condition of your battery cable ends and you can do a little maintenance to your battery and connectors while you're at it. Try to look at as a golden opportunity instead of an onerous duty!
 
   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #14  
I don't know for sure that disconnecting the battery will prevent damage to everything or anything but it doesn't (usually) take much effort to do so and it does give you the opportunity to check out the condition of your battery cable ends and you can do a little maintenance to your battery and connectors while you're at it. Try to look at as a golden opportunity instead of an onerous duty!

I LIKE the way you think,Mace!

Terry
 
   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #15  
Having a bit of an electronics background, I might suggest leaving the battery hooked up. It represents a low impedence for the 12 volt positive supply. Leaving the positive terminal off, could actually cause induced (harmfull) voltages to get into your computer via the open 12 volt buss. This is only my theory on the matter.

In general, when welding on a vehicle, it is good to place your welder ground as close to the work area as possible and not through a bearing or other bolted on part that may have a grounded electrical device. In other words, you don't want the welding return path to try and go through your electrical system ground.

This advice is the best in this thread. I've discussed this topic with electrical engineers where I work, and the consensus is that the battery will act as a capacitor, equalizing the circuit. You are far more likely to cause damage without it connected than you are if you leave it alone.

That being said, the best thing you can do is keep the ground very close to where you are welding. Don't slap the ground on the frame and weld on the exhaust for example.....you can not only damage electronics but you can melt grounding straps that are not capable of carrying the current between the two major components.

A decent write up I found in another forum:

"Having repaired computers in an earlier life, I'd like to think I know something about electronics. Electronics obey the same rules of ohms law as the steel you weld on. Although electronics don't need much in the way of current to fry them. Voltage spikes or voltage above limits of the equipment will damage it. However, modern electronics, especially those in a hostile environment such as a vehicle, have snubbing circuits, shielding, etc. An old model car, just hook up the work clamp very near where you are welding and weld. That is probably more important than anything else. Attach the work clamp to the rear bumper and weld on the front bumper, and you just increased your chance of frying something. The weld current has to pass along the length of the car and the paths taken by the current are unknown, possibly through components you did not intend to.

The problem basically is a difference of potential (voltage) between two points, say your ECU (your engine computer) and ground. Leaving the battery connected MIGHT actually help protect the electronics as a battery is low impedance and would equalize the voltage difference between the + and the - as the current would readily pass through the battery.

However on late model cars there is really a small
"internet" interconnect of a lot of different "computers". To be safe here, disconnecting the computers from the cabling (power included) would be more prudent then disconnecting the battery as all the computers are connected together. Disconnecting the battery does nothing except remove a helpful voltage equalization path thus allowing MORE chance of damage."
 
   / welding on a modern tractor, computer concerns? #16  
I agree with JB1390 completely. I have welded on machinery and cars for many years and never had a problem. If the computer or other delicate electronics is "in the circuit" such that there is current flowing through it, you have the ground hooked up in the wrong place. Getting a good ground connection close to where you are welding is more important than all other factors. Leaving the battery connected makes much more sense than disconnecting it as it will bleed off some energy if the circuit is exposed to some. So sand or grind away to expose a good ground connection point, and clamp on with a good ground clamp, and weld away.

Some ground clamps on cheaper welders are pathetic, and IMHO there is not much of an excuse for using them when they can be replaced with one that works pretty well for $15 from Harbor Freight. 400 Amp Welding Ground Clamp

Lastly, I have had some problems using magnetic ground clamps, typically with a non-optimal connection causing sparking and inconsistent arc. If I were working on anything with a chance of damaging electronics, I would not use something that did not contact metal from two sides and have some clamping force to ensure a good connection.
 

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