Well Water Treatment Costs

   / Well Water Treatment Costs #1  

BobInMN

Bronze Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2003
Messages
54
Location
Southern Minnesota
Tractor
Kubota B2710
We moved to the country about 4 years ago. Had a new well drilled at that time. The water has never been great. I put a new water softner in when we moved in. I believe the fields are plugged now. Toilets and showers are stained red. Black flakes in the bottom of the tub after a bath. Bad smell, both hot and cold water. Now, to make a long story short. I was recently at the county fair and stopped at a local vendors booth to ask him about water treatment. From my discription, without water testing, he recommended a chlorinator ($1400), a greensand filter ($1800), a softner ($500), and an undersink drinking water filter ($1400). I found the same chlorinator he has for about $600 on the net. Menards has a good undersink filter for $170. This is what I've been thinking. I will get my water tested by a lab that doesn't sell equipment. Then I will buy the equipment off the net and install myself. I know how to wire and plumb, so that won't be a problem. Once installed I will have my well guy check it out (he does not sell water treatment equipment). Anyone see any problems with this or do you think I should bite the bullet and pay the cost for a professional installation?
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #2  
Get a couple of opinions as to how to resolve the problem. I made a suggestion here a while back suggesting that a heavy chlorination of the well might resolve a similar problem and it was poo poo'd by another. This is how I resolved my water well problems and it was recommended by both the driller and the water testing company. Neither had any association with each other and didn't even know of the other. Without a water test, you will not know what you are dealing with. Talk to the well driller and see what they suggest first. Then check with the company that does the water testing in your area and get their opinion. Buying the products on the net is OK, but no matter where you get them, you want to know in advance that what is installed is going to resolve the problem. If you would like to read about chlorine and disinfecting well water, here is the article... click here......
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #3  
Hi Bob,

Junkman has some very good advice. A RO (reverse osmosis) undersink filter can be had at Costco or Sam's Club for around $150 or less. That is the maximum filtration and purification you would need for drinking water.

I had a similar situation to yours when I moved into a new house. I spent about $250 and had a commercial lab test the water. Like Junkman says, have them do it. Whatever you do, run away from the guy you met at the fair! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It may be iron in the water, sulfur, or some other thing. ONLY the lab test will tell you the facts. Then ask the test lab what they recommend, and possibly for the name of a "good" ('honest') water treatment company.

All of those "franchise" names and ""We'll-come-out-to-your-house-and-test-your-water-for-free" outfits are out to set you up with unnecessary expense.

I had five different firms come out to my place, and one quoted as high as $18,000. I finally got an inline whole house self-flushing computerized carbon filtration tank for about $1,200, salt water softener for about $400 and RO under the kitchen sink for about $300. That included ALL parts, labor and piping, which took all of a day. So, that is somewhat of a guideline.

Hope this helps.
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #4  
Bob,

P.S. To above. If you wind up putting in a salt-based water softener, be aware that sodium can clog up (in other words "ruin") your leech field, depending on various factors.

Our field got frozen up by the sodium within about a year and a half (after 25 years without any problems). I wound up with another $8,500 expense for a brand new septic, just a month before we sold the house! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If you are going to softener your water, and you have a leech field, look into softeners that use potassium pellets, instead of salt (sodium).
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #5  
<font color="blue"> Our field got frozen up by the sodium within about a year and a half (after 25 years without any problems). I wound up with another $8,500 expense for a brand new septic, just a month before we sold the house! If you are going to softener your water, and you have a leech field, look into softeners that use potassium pellets, instead of salt (sodium).
</font>

Hakim, you've always got excellent advice.

I've got my water softener discharge running into 1/2 inch plastic pipe to the ditch that runs along the road in front of my house. It serves two purposes--
The salt content doesn't destroy my concrete tanks or leach fields, and it also helps kill the grass in the ditch where I'm not able to mow! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #6  
<font color="blue"> Whatever you do, run away from the guy you met at the fair... All of those "franchise" names and ""We'll-come-out-to-your-house-and-test-your-water-for-free" outfits are out to set you up with unnecessary expense. </font>

Always keep in mind that these folks are commissioned salespeople. The more expensive the unit they are able to sell you, the larger the commission they get. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Since the well permits are public record, these salesmen were showing up almost daily when we first moved into our new house last year. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I had our water tested with a ten dollar kit I bought at Home Depot and then went to Ohio Pure Water. Their website told me what size unit I needed, based on my water test, not from what some salesman thought he could get away with selling me. I ordered it online at 6:00 am, and UPS delivered it to my house at 2:00 pm THE NEXT DAY! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif It was shipped in six boxes, to stay under the UPS weight limit.
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #7  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Hakim, you've always got excellent advice. )</font>

In this case, it was not due to any brain smarts whatsoever, but simply a bitter lesson from the School of Hard Knocks.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've got my water softener discharge running into 1/2 inch plastic pipe to the ditch that runs along the road in front of my house. It serves two purposes--
The salt content doesn't destroy my concrete tanks or leach fields, and it also helps kill the grass in the ditch where I'm not able to mow! )</font>

Very clever of you. Most people are not aware of the sodium/salt/leech field problem. Somebody ought to write up a report and make it available for sale/download. Lots of boomer-types are moving into rural communities and back to the land. They need to know about this stuff! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #8  
Chlorinator? Is there bacteria or similar in your well water sample? Don't understand. My state has an agency that analyzes water (for a fee - you collect water in jar that looks like a urine sampling jar) for minerals and microrganisms. My country property has objectionable sulfur (at least, per the estimation of my wife) and a marginally high iron content. I installed an aerator tank, which is essentially a holding tank with an internal sprinkler system and an exhaust fan that connects to a through wall port - similar to a clothes dryer, so your garage or wherever the tank is located doesn't smell too much. Such got rid of the sulfur smell/taste, and I'm keeping an eye on the toilet, sinks and the like re. staining from iron and other chemicals. An option I've considered in an undersink type of mini-RO system (as in Costco or Sams) to a dedicated tap for drinking water or ice cubes (can run line to refrigerator ice maker off same system). The tank aerator has been successful, and the ice cubes I've put in my scotch don't taint the taste with sulfur (which would be unacceptable, as adding ice to scotch is to most purists).
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #9  
Bob:

I hope Junkman don't chastise me for this but, here goes:

First off, do what Andy suggests. Get you water tested. Here in Michigan, most counties will test your water for a nominal fee, sometimes for free. You need to know the amount of calcium, lime, sulfur and Iron. If you are in an agricultural area you also need to know the amount of phosphorus and the bacteria level. Then talk to a competent system installer and ask for references and check those references out.

If your water isn't too "hard", that is it don't contain too much dissolved lime and calcium, I'd advise against a softener and if you do decide to get one, LEASE the equipment with a service contract. The resin bed as well as the valving will eventually go south and if you own it, it's your cost.

The problem with "softening" the water is that you exchange one substance for another, like sodium for calcium and lime. When you regenerate the resin bed, the sodium reacts with the green sand (resin) and strips the calcium/lime from it. Even though the unit backwashes itself, a certain amount of sodium remains in the resin bed and goes in your water. The backwash water is as it was said is hard on a concrete septic system as well as your leach field. For that matter, so is the Grey water that comes from you washing machine and the drain from your kitchen sink. Grease is a mortal enemy of the microbial bacterial action in a septic system.

I have lived in a rural setting about all my life, with no city sewers or city water. I was always told by old timers, even though I am getting to be an old timer myself is: Nothing goes in a septic system but human waste. No detergent, no grease, no kitchen waste from your garbage disposal, no tampons, nothing synthetic.

I am going to post something that I presume most folks don't know and that is, you can buy commercial "Septic Tank Rejuvenating" concoctions like Rid-Ex. Actually, the best thing to keep your septic system and leach field working properly is the above guidelines and the introduction of an occasional ROAD KILL. No, I don't mean a deer, I mean a raccoon, squirrel, rabbit or a few birds, preferably ones that have been at the side of the road a while and are good and RIPE. I am sure you have seen the opossum or raccoon on the side of the road, all bloated up with it's legs sticking up in the air, GRAB IT. Use rubber gloves and a plastic bag. Take it home and open the inspection cover and drop it in. I know it sounds disgusting, but, the microorganisms that are busy eating the carcass are the same ones that reduce human waste to a liquid. They are right at home in your tank. Besides, you removed the stinking mess from the roadside.

In the years I have lived on this farm, my wife and I have spent thousands of dollars on equipment that eventually failed and went to the landfill. My present system is a Culligan softener (leased), set on the minimal cycle and salt usage and H2O2 injection/particulate after filter. I like others, discharge the softener backwash to the road in the front of our homestead.

I had a RO unit, but I prefer bottled water for drinking because we have about 12 ppm sulfur dioxide and even though I strip the sulfur from the raw water using H2O2 injection, it still makes my coffee taste bad.

Reverse Osmosis does get the heavy metals as well as phosphorus and microbes out of the water, but an RO will only provide water for drinking as the capacity of even expensive units is not very much. The drawback to an RO unit is that if the membrane isn't cleaned by back flushing regularly, it can become contaminated and the microbes that it will filter out can begin growing on the surface and your RO can become deadly. I had a Kinetco unit which is about 3 times as large as the ones the box stores sell. The input pressure across the membrane was 300 psi and the output was about 7 gallons per day. If you want it, I have it in the basement. Bottled water is more practical for coffee and cool aid.

There are various systems for removing sulfur. Besides Hydrogen Peroxide injection, there are Potassium Permagnate filters and aerators. I would caution against any type of chlorination. Sodium Hypochlorite is a known carcinogenic. Potassium Permagnate is poison so the 2 systems that would be my choice is either aeration or H2O2 injection.

H2o2 injection is used by most commercial water entities in municipal water as it will kill all microorganisms. The added benefit is that it will precipitate sulfur dioxide into a solid that can be filtered from the water.

Hard water can be dealt with by softening, but as I said, LEASE the equipment. It has a very definite working life. Let the lease company absorb it. There is no "pride in ownership". Sooner or later, probably sooner, your unit will malfunction and require rebuilding.

Iron oxide, has to be filtered from the water, either with a centrifugal type filter or cartridge filter and if you have dissolved salt, put in a holding tank.

I can't ( for liability reasons) get into the dynamics of H2o2 injection on a public forum. If you do indeed have sulfur in your water, you need to consult a local water specialist about the necessary equipment to remove it.

If you desire more information about the above, please e-mail me privately.
 
   / Well Water Treatment Costs #10  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

I hope Junkman don't chastise me for this but, here goes:
)</font>

When have I ever chastised your or even for that matter even considered disagreeing with you. I respect my elders and their opinions, even if I don't agree or they are wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would like to point out one thing that I have learned from owning my own water softener for over 20 years. If you remove the plug from the back of the resin tanks (resin = Rohm and Hass Ion 120) and siphon out some of the water, and replace it with a 1/4 cup of citric acid and 1 gallon of water, let stand for a day, and then back flush, the resin bed will be like new. The other choice is to remove the resin bed and dump the resin and install new resin. Either one is easier and less expensive than replacing the unit. Another thing that I have learned is that you can use potassium to regenerate the water softener in place of salt. Salt is detrimental to your health when you use it for all cooking and drinks. Ask your doctor about the excess salt intake as a result of a water softener. The advise to keep the backwash water out of the septic system is good advise and it doesn't matter what product you are using for recharging.
Without mentioning names, it was a person that sold these units that was (is) on the forums that said that you should never use chlorine to disinfect a well. I didn't agree then and I still don't agree now. I realize that chlorine is a known carcinogen, but it is also the best way to disinfect a well. When you use it to disinfect the well, you drink and cook with bottled water, and don't wash dark clothes, until it is used up. Depending on the strength of application, this can take anywhere from a couple of days, to a couple of weeks or months to dissipate. When my well was first drilled, I put 5 pounds of chlorine powder into it for sanitizing. We were not in the house for another 6 months, and when we were, the water showed no traces of the chlorine, nor any coliform bacteria. All of the iron bacteria was killed and the rust color to the water was gone, along with the sulfur smell. It has never come back either. The second water sampling was a lot better than the first. As for PH, it is so low, that the test just shows "yellow". The water is also very hard, hence the water softener. Our kitchen sink faucet is piped directly from the water storage tank, so we never cook or prepare drinks with softened water. My wife adds enough salt to make up for it. She wants to collect on my life insurance... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 

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