Went to Autoshow

   / Went to Autoshow #1  

BigDave

Platinum Member
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MD
Tractor
New Holland TC33D
For my birthday my wife took me to the MotorTrend Autoshow over in Baltimore and as a good sport didn't complain at all, except for when I sat in same model as my own car. (I just wanted to see what the 2004 was like /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) Anyway, I had two things I wanted to look at: Trucks & supercars, well high end luxury cars.

We went to Chevy & GMC first. I was very interested in the new Colorado & Canyon twins. I was disappointed by how low the sat was, providing a less than comfortable driving position. I couldn't get into a comfortable driving position period. The full size GM trucks fit me much better, but for some reason all of the 1500 & 2500 sized trucks had a large black plastic piece below the radio that had a cubby-hole & nothing else. It looks like something should be there, but not one truck had anything there, it kind of made the truck look cheap, despite some of the trucks containing leather interiors. Maybe somebody knows what belongs there. I'm curious. Next were the Dodge's, I really like the comfort level of the Dodge Ram, even though the 4wd model had the highest step-up of any truck we saw today. The Ram had a nice layout & the interior materials didn't look cheap. Too bad they don't have an extended cab model. Next were the Fords. I was quite eager before the show to check out the new F-150, but I was disappointed again. As far as interiors go, I like the old F-150 better. There was a definite lack of head room. Too much plastic, including door handles. The trucks looked soo much nicer in the pictures. We then checked out the F-250. This is a much nicer truck for me to sit in. The price for an XLT FX4 4wd w/ diesel was $41,000, IMHO it was better than what you get in the F-150 for the money. Next was the Toyota Tacoma. We sat in a Quad cab 4wd with the works. The interior was as nice as any luxury SUV that we saw during the during day. Leather & wood accents not normally seen in a truck. Also not normally seen on a truck was the $50,000 sticker price. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Finally the long awaited Nissan Titan, the interior looked sharp. It had a titanium colored material on the console which looked very nice. The 180 degree rear opening doors on the supercab had an interesting hinge setup that didn't allow the door to hit the bed even when opened hard. I checked. I was disappointed when I pulled the lever to open up the back seat. The lever came off in my hand. I guess I could have had an autoshow souveneer, but I put it back on where it belonged. Anyway, I didn't drive any of these trucks, so the new F-150 or even the Titan's advantages weren't apparent. All I did sit in each one. So far my favorite was the Toyota, with an additional $6000 in engine mods would be a pretty slick truck in my book. Not wanting to spend $56,000 on a truck, the F-250 would be my first choice to revisit when it is time to buy. Of course the behind the wheel will tell a very different story.

Now for cars. We sat in too many to mention, but two stand out in my memory. The Volkswagon Phaeton was an impressive automobile. It was roped off, so I actually did't get sit in it, but the doors were open. I wasn't expecting much more than a stretched out Passat, but this car was much sleeker with an interior that I would expect in a Rolls Royce. At $85,000, I not sure who would buy this car, but it was impressive none the less. The other car of note was the Mercedes E55 AMG. The sticker said $87,000 and it doesn't look like a car that would cost more than $40K, but people (me too) were drooling over this car, more so than the $120K SL55 that was nearby. I guess it is the wolf in sheeps clothing aspect. One lady upon exiting said that they needed to sell their home, since she really need that car. I took an imaginary test drive behind the wheel with my posse while cranking up some urban hip-hop tunes. Wait a minute BigDave & his posse? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif There were 4 teens who brought their own CD to listen in the E55. The driver noticed me waiting patiently outside. I guess my kind and gentle looking face, not to mention my 320lbs, (I lost 30lbs) encouraging the driver to let me take the seat. He stepped out, but his gang stayed in the car. While, I was tapping the speed shift paddles & generally looking around, a voice from the back seat asked Reese, the kid in the front seat, to ask their driver if it would be okay to crank up the volume. Not wanting to disappoint, I cranked up the volume. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I hope this provides a different point of view than what the car professionals provide. I watch Motorweek & Car and Driver TV every week, and they never have any testers that look like me.
 
   / Went to Autoshow #2  
dave
if you want to sit in the pheaton, go to russel automotive in catonsvile. they have one in the showroom. i loved it, but i liked the tourogc (sp?) better, especially since the diesel is coming out this spring!
 
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Did they have the 2005 mustang? Somehow..someway...i'm gonna own one of those , although it might not be till the following spring. I've never bought a new car in the fall or winter. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
   / Went to Autoshow
  • Thread Starter
#4  
The 2005 Mustang was displayed on a podium near the GT40. The crowd definitely seemed more pushy near the Mustang. I assume some of the folks present were potential buyers, unlike the GT40 where there were only whistful dreams of winning the lottery someday. They also had the Pontiac GTO & Bonneville GXP. The Cadillac CTS-V was displayed. I only saw 2004 Corvettes, the 2005 was no where to be seen. The new 2005 Chrysler 300 & Dodge Magnum were on display. The 2005 Ford 500 was there. I sat in a Kia Amanti & was impressed, it felt like a full-size American Car. That's what I like about autoshows, you go in with a bunch of preconceptions, then you sit in a bunch of cars that you may never have thought to look at, and leave with a different opinions of what you may drive next.

Also, I sat on the Touareg, it felt pretty comfortable. My sister-in-law asked me to look at SUV's, and that is one of the ones I will recommend for her to test drive.
 
   / Went to Autoshow #5  
Dave, the full size Chevy truck has heater controls under the radio. I'd be surprised if the truck you sat in had no heater controls. (there are two heater control options). Just below the heater controls is the center console extension including two cubby holes. Maybe this is what you were referring to. I Don't believe there are any accessories or options that sometimes fill these holes. I would surely use one for my garage door remote.
 
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Here is a picture of the full size chevy interior.
 

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   / Went to Autoshow #7  
the one cubby hole was sized for the travel size kleenex box the other fits a cell phone well and a third to the right of the radio cluster is deep and narrow, better to have to many than crap sitting on top of the dash.

hey Jerry is Shirley biting his nails yet?

You might even be jealous of my latest job (Toyo Seat) about 10 minutes north of your house!! Been trying to get in since I learned of them in '95.
 
   / Went to Autoshow #8  
"Next was the Toyota Tacoma. We sat in a Quad cab 4wd with the works. The interior was as nice as any luxury SUV that we saw during the during day. Leather & wood accents not normally seen in a truck. Also not normally seen on a truck was the $50,000 sticker price."

Bigdave, this will turn into another Toyota hate thread I am sure but the truck that you sat in that cost 50,000 was the Tundra, not the Tacoma. Further, the Tundra is available with a dealer installed Toyota TRD, Toyota warranty approved supercharger that runs horsepower up to about 325/350 horses. I have driven such a machine and it moves like a scalded cat with afterburners. This is a 5,000 dollar option but a supercharged TRD Tundra is a match for most anything, a new chip and TRD dual exhaust boost power closer to 375. The Lexus V8 is a way relaxed engine in it's current state of tune. This engine can make serious power and the new 5.4 version will be formiddable--period.
Next year the Tacoma is moving up in size and power with a top engine of the Lexus/Tundra 4.7 and the Tundra will have a 300 horse plus 5.4 as the top engine choice so I understand. In a few years, the Tundra will be supplemented by Toyotas equivilent of a F250 3/4 ton possibly with a turbo diesel. Look for that in 2007 or so.
The Toyota clearly has the best fit and finsih, the quietest and smoothest ride, the greatest stock ground clearence and by far the smoothest engine. The Titan is a monster and will only get better. I really like the new Ford, all the magazines like it as well. Unlike Motor Trend, Car and Driver gave the Titan the number one spot and the Ford number two. Really, all these trucks are so good that best is defined but a persons particular needs and values. I value a limo ride in total silence with good offroad capability and a spunky engine and superb finsih. The Toyota gives me that. I have nothing that requires a 9,500 tow rating. If I did I would trade for the Titan.

On another note, I am somewhat enthusiastic about the new Ford Mustang. If they offer a SVT/SVO limited production model as they say they will and a Shelby Cobra version I may buy one. I really liked my SVO. What I want in a modern SVO, let Shelby have the Cobra name and build the V10 version I hear about and let SVT build a modern SVO with a 3.0 liter, twin cam 20 valve (5 per cylinder), supercharged, balanced shaft 4 cylinder, all aluminum, with a minimum of 350 horses. I want IRS as well and no rear seat, the SVO biwing spoiler and a nose job that distinguishes it clearly from rental bottom end Mustangs. Why 4 cylinder?, balance and weight distribuiton, I also want an 8,000 RPM redline. Let the V8 guys have the GT with solid axle and the hotrod guys the Shelby Cobra, make mine an SVO for the track and autocross. J
 
   / Went to Autoshow
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Your picture has a console, which looks better than what I saw. The trucks I saw had the bench seat, with only one tray where there could have been two.
 
   / Went to Autoshow
  • Thread Starter
#10  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( the Tundra, not the Tacoma )</font>

Ooops, it wasn't the Tacoma, it was the Tundra. Sorry about that.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( this will turn into another Toyota hate thread )</font>

As I said, the Toyota had the slickest interior. Brand specific hate threads happen when people bash other people's choices or make absolute statements that may be qualitative at best. When you say mine is better than yours, obviously somebody will disagree. It like telling TBNer's who bought Dodge's, Ford or Chevy's that they must somehow be uninformed (kind word in place of stupid) for not buying your perception of the best. As you already know, I take offense, since my Ford & Chevy trucks have been more reliable and less costly than my Toyota truck, but hey I will only buy a handful of trucks in my lifetime, so I'm no expert. Statistical analysis will tell you that the sample size is too small to make generalities out of our personal experiences. That said, when something costs you more money or leaves you stranded, you hold a grudge anyway. My first two vehicle were Japanese because I bought into the hype that all things Japanese were superior, but now I believe I'm better informed & purchase my vehicles based on the best combination of comfort, performance, reliability, initial & total costs and not by manufacturer or country of origin.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Unlike Motor Trend, Car and Driver gave the Titan the number one spot and the Ford number two. )</font>

Awards are subjective things, but the Ford F150 beat out the Nissan Titan for the biggest award that can be given to a truck. The 2004 North American Truck of the Year, for which I believe Motor Trend and Car and Driver contribute to the voting process as well as many other industry experts. As I said from my brief visit at the autoshow I wasn't impressed with either of these vehicles. When it is time for me to drop $30-40K on a truck, obviously I will check out all the trucks that are available. Maybe, I will find my initial impression of the Ford to be wrong, and maybe, the Nissan won't come apart in my hands. Actually positive outcomes for both are likely, due to those darned statistics again.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This is a 5,000 dollar option but a supercharged TRD Tundra )</font>

That what I was alluding to when I mentioned $6000 in engine mods. The total cost for a supercharger, chip, exhaust, brakes, air filter come to $8300 + dealer installation which I've read could be 50% more. You will need to add another grand or so for decent tires. A Ford Lightning or Dodge RT10 may be a more cost efficient method to get the fastest truck on the road. The advantage for Toyota is that you can get these mods on a 4wd truck.

<font color="red"> Finally, you may infer this as Toyota bashing, but it not really. Toyota is a fine company who hired some less than scrupolous ad people. </font>

I am annoyed by their current ad for the Tundra. This is like the campaigns from many of the other manufacturers that are not technically dishonest, but they are deceptive to say the least. The ad in question claims more torque than the F-150. Then following statement claims to give you everything to pull your own weight, not to mention someone else's. Hmmm, lets see, more torque than the Ford, then you mention towing, well the Tundra must be able to tow more than the Ford. Obvious right? What they failed to mention other than in the fine print was that they compared to the base engine in the F150. The Ford make 293lbs of torque while the Toyota makes 315lbs, so this is true at least for the fine print. Where the real deception takes place is that the Tundra has a lower towing capicty 4700lbs vs 6900lbs without towing packages, and only 6500lbs with their towing package. The Ford reaches 7200lbs without towing package, but with the optional 365lb-ft engine. Dishonest no, deceptive yes. Please don't say the Titan has more towing capability, that's not the point. It's just a gripe about the way vehicles get compared in advertisements. Ford advertises that they have an extra bolt holding the bed to the chassis, that tells me nothing, since 4 higher tensile strength bolts could be stronger than 5 lower tensile bolts, but who knows, there's not enough facts. We are just supposed to assume that is is something good. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
   / Went to Autoshow #12  
Bigdave, like I said, Toyota bashing /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. No worries, I always understood my truck was not best for everyone, just for me /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Doug, yes, the Pantera is quite a machine. Sure wish they would make that again /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. The Shelby Cobra unfortunately may run up to 100,000 dollars or more I fear as the new GT runs about 140,000. I was thinking more along the lines of a trick Mustang in a somewhat less stratospehric price range /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. There is money well spent and money wasted, at that kind of price range (100,000 plus) I think it is money wasted but that is just me /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

Tires?, my Tundra came with BF Goodrich, as far as I am concerned those are the best /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Now, if I had 350 horsepower, I might need some that were a tad wider since the ones I have are somewhat expended due to all the rubber stripes I lay down /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
As to what actually lies under my hood, well, er, we'll let that just be my little secret /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif but those twin stripes of smoking rubber I am known to trail behind me may give some cause for concern to even the most jaded /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif.
Oh, I suppose there are 50,000 dollar Tundras but mine did not exactly cost that and now that it is paid for a few little mods here and there don't break the bank now do they? Nothing like a paid for car/truck. If I could just stay out of that Titan /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
I don't think the new Ford looks cheap, in fact, I hear it is such high quality that the bean counters are wanting to reduce the grade of materials to produce a better profit margin. I hope the Ford guys kick the bean counters in the rear and send them packing. Now is not a good time to be pulling punches because like it or not Nissan has come out slugging and Toyota is about to come out for round two and this time they are not going to be fooling around.

Car/truck commercials are universely stupid, the Chevy pulling the house, the Ford having bricks dumped in it's bed, the Titan passing a Dodge going up hill, the Toyota outrunning sportcars and then leaping across a ditch leaving them trailing dust, the GMC challenging a Bison heard or some crap like that, make for fine entertainment but like everything on TV, most of it is hype.

I like the new Mustang, power to the people /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. J
 
   / Went to Autoshow #13  
De Tomaso does have some stuff going /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
www.detomaso.it/gb/vetture/ieri/ieri.html
Looks like fun...

It is WONDERFUL not having car or bike payments. It is funny, how we all, especially lately, have had conversations about Tundra/Titan/F150/F250/Duramax, but we hardly ever talk about paying them off /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Have you ever looked at SCCA A-Sedan Mustang/Camaro road course racing? It seems to be very popular back there... Only bummer is they seem to be limited to older engine/tranny configurations.
 
   / Went to Autoshow #14  
"but we hardly ever talk about paying them off "

Yeah, that is the best feature on a car, being paid off. That is why I never buy used. I buy a new car and take care of it and drive it till it falls apart or close to it. With only 45,000 or so on the Tundra it should go aways yet. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Since the fall of civilization and our crumbling infrastructure cars in general have not held the public fancy like SUV/PU. That is a shame because there is a complete dirth of cool sporty cars out there /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. There really is not a single sport type machine out there that I really like enough to want to own one. The new 350Z is dissapointing, the M3 looks like a Corrola, the Prelude is gone, the Supra is gone, the F-body GM twins are gone /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif. Only Ford is hanging tuff with the original pony car. Only Ford can give us a Mustang /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. I may buy one when they produce some limited performace versions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Corvette, sorry, I just cannot get all that excited over a chop glass bodied car that cost that much and rattles and squeaks. It needs more of a Euro type ride as well. The Viper, nah, too much dollars and I don't really like them either.
Autocross is fun, ever try that? Long ago I took one of those competition Bondarant(sp) performance driving courses. I also put my SVO on the track a few times--track days. Fun holding the pedal to the floor and not worring about speeding tickets. The few parking lot races I have entered were fun and I like them because they are against the clock and there is little danger of injury to self or car /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
The new Mustang is going to be built on Ford's auto partner's line, Mazda, so they can control quality and fit better (that is what Ford says). It has a new chassis and after the intital year(05) there is supposedly going to be several performance versions. The 05 GT will have 300 hp, not quite enough and no IRS. I will wait for an SVT/SVO version. I think the Shelby version, Shelby has been hired to work this car /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, will likely be out of my range but in addition to the Shelby, there will be a SVT and a Mach etc as well. Ford says they will build versions that will compare to the BMW M3. OK, I am waiting /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Oh, I understand the Skyline may be coming to America /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif at long last, that could be intersting.
Oh, speaking of Jap performance cars, did you guys realize that the Subaru WRX packs a 300 HP wallop and goes 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds. Like I said, a performance Mustang is going to need more than 300HP to provoke me into buying one. Getting beat in a stoplight GP by a "Ricer" with a lip ring is not my plan. I hear the Ricers call domestics "Corn" /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. J
 
   / Went to Autoshow
  • Thread Starter
#15  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Tires?, my Tundra came with BF Goodrich, as far as I am concerned those are the best )</font>

Toyota TRD has a tire/wheel package that includes Michelin Cross Terrain SUV tires (275/55SR18) that costs $2420. These are pretty highly rated tires at Tire Rack. Although I'm not endorsing Michelin, I just put Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (235/50WR17) tires on my car and I can feel the improvement big time over the Firestone Firehawks that were OEM. Anyway, buying the works thus pushing the price tag close to $65,000 on a truck, WOW, but I would agree that would be the slickest truck out there.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't think the new Ford looks cheap )</font>
Maybe my expectations were set too high, but the way the automotive press boasted about this truck, I probably was expecting luxury car type materials combined with tractor-like ruggedness.

Let me get this straight. You are saying good things about Ford, & I'm saying good things about Toyota. This can only mean one of two things: The world is about to end, or there can be peace in the middle-east. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, I went to the Toyota website & I couldn't build a stock Tundra that costs much more thab $42K without being silly, so I'm not sure what extra items the truck at the autoshow had installed. Being slightly more conservative, a Tundra Access Cab Limited V8 4x4 ($33,500) with supercharger, Cat Backs, wheels/tires, stronger limited slip, shocks, plugs, air filter, & big brakes ($12,000) plus dealer installation, say $2,500 after negotiations, comes to $48,000. Toyota has $1000 cash back plus 1.9% financing, so its a bargain. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
   / Went to Autoshow #16  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( That is why I never buy used. I buy a new car and take care of it and drive it till it falls apart or close to it. )</font>

on this point we differ, i usually buy used(very very selective) i look for cars 2 to 5 years old ,low milage and well taken care of. they are out there if u take your time and look. my wifes current car is a 95 buick that i bought 3 years ago, with 17 k on it. i buy them used and run them till they are junk.not a question of who is right or wrong just 2 different ways of looking at something. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Went to Autoshow #17  
"Let me get this straight. You are saying good things about Ford, & I'm saying good things about Toyota. This can only mean one of two things: The world is about to end, or there can be peace in the middle-east. "

Well that may be but I have said before that I have nothing against Ford, have owned three Fords and while not trouble free they were OK cars. I may buy another Ford someday. It is GM that I have the problem with, Ford and Chrysler I have no beef with. Just because I like Ford does not mean I think the Titan is second fiddle to the Ford /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Frank, I understand buying a good used car but any way you look at it buying new gives me a few more years of use at a premium price maybe, maybe not. Hypothetical, but if a car has a good 150,000 in it and you buy it at 50,000 and you put 15,000 on per year and I do the same but with a new identical car I am clearly going to get a few more years and miles but I doubt the end price is much different. The way I see it that is about three more years I would have the vehicle and thus my total ownership cost is your years of ownership plus 3 yrs. See what I am saying? I have my Tundra, for example, since Summer 2,000, it has 45,000 miles on it and it is paid for now. See, that is 3 and 1/2 years I got that you do not get if you were to buy a similar used Tundra (just for example) with the same miles etc so my total costs are divided by more years. If I had a calculator handy I could figure it for you but got a headache so I will not. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The real advantage I get is that I can have the best and most trouble free years of use, can maintain the vehicle to my standards and hopefully maybe get a little more use in the end as a result. I could be wrong. J
 
   / Went to Autoshow #18  
Tres, I have a Tacoma and this thing won't quit. BUT ... I've recently scene the Hummer H3T. Have you seen this? It's a Tacoma on Steroids. Take a look at it on the net. It's got front side bed gates! And colored rubber tire treads!

And ... it's 2 or 3 CUTs probably as far as a MSRP will be.

Too much HP too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Went to Autoshow #20  
Doug, yes, I seen that. The H3T if I undestand correctly will share the platforms with the new Chevy Colorado which is the S10 replacement. I also read that it will use the same engine and drive train which means the Inline 5 cylinder will be the engine. Yes, 5 cylinder. Before getting upset that new 5 cylinder makes 220 horses and if installed in this H3T probably with a supercharger, well, hang on to your hat /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. There should be plenty of power for towing tractors out of mud holes or such as that. There will be a H3 (SUV) as well I believe.
This new Colordao truck should be a great improvement over the S10. I drove a stripped down non 4WD version because that is all they had. I don't think dealers are getting the 4X4 in any numbers until Feb. Well, I have decided to hang on to the Tundra a while longer but I like the concept of the 5 cylinder engine in a sport package with a supercharger. Hope they offer that as an option in a performance package or something. Most people really do not need full size trucks, the new Colorado, the new Tacoma (yes bigger with a V8 option--06), the Ranger are all most people need to pull trailers and tractors and with the new club cabs there is room for people too. What more could you want, well, cheaper price would be nice. J
 

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