What matters most: bucket curl or dipper strength?

[Boondox]

I put this in Attachments because the question pertains to both mini excavators and backhoes.

A Kubota mini-ex I'm checking out has 1800# more bucket breakout force than a Volvo EC35. But the Volvo has 1600# more dipper arm breakout force than the Kubota. In thinking about the math it occurs to me the greater bucket curl force would be better at breaking stones and roots free, while the greater dipper force would result in a better trencher, ditch cleaner, and boulder carrier...and would also have more power to pull itself out of muck. So it comes down to figuring out how the excavator/backhoe will be used, right?

Did I get that right?

Pete

 

[john_bud]

From what little I know or have hopefully figured out, I think you have it!

My guess would be that the Volvo has better all around operation as the ram is usually larger on the dipper stick to get greater force -- indicating that the hydraulic flow is greater. The bucket breakout can be manipulated with pin position. So a weaker overall system can post one shining star. Not saying that is the case here, but as marketing types put the docs together....


Will they both let you dig with each?

jb

 

[Boondox]

Thanks, John. You hit my concern on the head. At work, we've been bitten several times by believing the claims of the sales people selling us equipment. I'm determined not to do that at home!

In a way it's a moot point for me, as the Volvo I'm considering has the Kubota I could afford beat on both dipper and bucket breakout force. Being a Kubota owner for years I've always been impressed with their quality, but that Volvo is so incredibly overbuilt it just blows me away! Both dealers are great, the cost of spare parts is so close as to be a non-issue, and both are trailerable with my 3/4 ton Chevy.

Pete

 

[BTDT]

I would say the dipper strength comes into play with being able to load whatever it was you broke out with the bucket. If you break out a piece of concrete, but your dipper won't lift it to put it in the back of truck or on a trailer, you will have to double handle (turn around and use front loader). Just a thought.

 

[Botabill]

I have a small Kubota excavator and they do have one of the highest bucket break out forces going. That is real good for braking roots and I do a lot of that. With regards to dipper breakout I'm sure there are advantages but I don't know exactly what they would be. Perhaps in soft soil or sand you can dig using dipper force which might make the Volvo faster for trenching. In my heavy rocky clay you often have to curl the bucket to loosen a bucket full so bucket breakout helps. Dipper strength would help some as well. I think operator technique will adjust to use any avantage that is available whether it be dipper or bucket strength. There are more important considerations I would think.

 

[PILOON]

My 2 cents!

With high curl power you will break out what you want without lifting the rear end off of the ground.

With high dipper power you can accomplish much the same but you will be lifting and thumping the machine a lot.
Hard on the machine and on the operator as well.

Rest assured that the power levels are factory adjusted so that the bucket can raise safe loads into the dump truck or whatever you are loading.

If lift power is too highly set then when you lift/swing a load to dump it, you could find the *** end off the ground when you extend that loaded bucket.

I thing that you will find power is all related to weight of the machine especially the counter balancing. It is all a question of counterbalancing eg L X W= L X W (one ton at 10 ft=100 ton at 1 ft.)

 

[dirtworksequip]

What the difference is that there are two types or styles of hoe digging.
1)Bucket digging 2) Stick digging. Which do you use most? I don't think the stick power would be that critical as any thing you lift will be with the boom not the stick. I'd go with the machine that has the greater bucket breakout force.Most people use the bucket style method.

Bucket digging and stick digging

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q259/dirtworksequip/P1010953-1.jpg

 

[john_bud]

Thanks, John. You hit my concern on the head. At work, we've been bitten several times by believing the claims of the sales people selling us equipment. I'm determined not to do that at home!

In a way it's a moot point for me, as the Volvo I'm considering has the Kubota I could afford beat on both dipper and bucket breakout force. Being a Kubota owner for years I've always been impressed with their quality, but that Volvo is so incredibly overbuilt it just blows me away! Both dealers are great, the cost of spare parts is so close as to be a non-issue, and both are trailerable with my 3/4 ton Chevy.

Pete

Enjoy the Volvo. Should be a nice unit!

jb