What to replace if your vehicle brakes lock up...

[rtimgray]

Since there is a good amount of mechanical knowledge present on this forum, I thought I would throw out this conundrum for some possible help...

I've had a 1988 Suzuki Samurai since 1992, and for the most part, it has been my daily driver. Over the course of the years, I've replaced several major parts (transmission, transfer case, rear axle, etc.) and countless minor parts. However, for a cheap vehicle for 24 years or so, it's been good to me and reliable...and cheap, since I've done all the mechanic work on it.

However, last fall, I was driving to work on a rainy day and I was traveling about 45-55 mph behind a Chevy truck. As we approached a green stop light, it changed to yellow and the truck in front of me hit the brakes suddenly. I hit my brakes and they promptly locked up and I slid on the pavement and into his rear bumper. I would like to complain about the gentleman stopping on a yellow light, but the fact is I hit him, so I can't really place the blame anywhere else. The good news is that there was only minor damage, I bought him a new bumper (for $300) so as to avoid having it affect my insurance, and no one was injured.

The damage to the Samurai was a badly damaged front bumper (pushed one of the corners into the drivers side front tire - had to use a sawzall to cut the bumper end off to be able to turn the steering wheel) and broken plastic grill. Beyond that, nothing significant and I drove it home.

It has been sidelined since then, and the behest of the wife. She insists it is not safe to drive until I fix the brakes. (Also, the bumper needs to be replaced and I've always wanted to fabricate a bumper for it, so this was going to be my opportunity). When I drove it home, and have driven it around a little since then, I haven't been able to make the brakes lock up on dry pavement, although I may not be able to bring myself to stomp them with the same ferocity I did the rainy morning of the accident.

So the long and the short of this post is - what components would be the best/most logical items to change in order to get my brake system as good as it can possibly be? For those unfamiliar with Samurais, they feature front disc brakes, rear drum brakes, and a power booster. Mine does not have anti-lock brakes, and I don't know if any subsequent models did or not (can't find them on the internet, but haven't looked too hard) Since I have had it, I've changed the rear shoes twice and the front pads three times (from what I can find in my notebook that I keep on my vehicular repairs). I can't find anywhere that I've ever replaced the front calipers or discs, nor have I replaced the rear drums, or booster and master cylinder.

Would new calipers/rotors help? I figure it can't hurt, and the cost to change out everything including hoses and hardware kits would be less than $200. Similar is true for the rear drums (new drums, wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware, hoses). A master cylinder is about $75 and new booster is about $90. I could replace every component in the brake system for $500-$600, but I don't know if that is necessary.

Has anyone else experienced conditions like this, and can you recommend where to start? It's not like I have to do it all at one time, but I was thinking of purchasing components over the course of a few months and then installing once the weather warms up.

Thanks for any help and suggestion that it offered.

Good luck and take care.

 

[motownbrowne]

My thought is that if you want safer braking at highway speed, you should leave the Samurai parked. You can replace all the components you want on your Samurai and you'll still be driving a vehicle without ABS.

In your accident, you said the brakes locked up. Did you have time to pump the brakes? Unless you're saying that the brakes locked and then wouldn't release (while you were pumping them), then they did exactly what I would expect them to do.

I think Samurai's are cool little vehicles. If my wrangler died, I'd consider replacing it with one. However, since 1988, vehicle safety has come a LONG way. If you'd like to keep driving your Suzuki, that's fine, but realize that it's a death trap compared to a modern sedan. If you choose to do that, you need to give yourself more stopping distance, as you mentioned. The person in front of you can stop at any time, for any reason, and it's solely your responsibility not to collide with them. If your vehicle doesn't have ABS and good tires, you need to plan accordingly.

If I were you, I'd keep the Samurai as is and drive it occasionally to town and use it primarily off road. Then I'd buy a commuter car. There's plenty of early 2000 Honda's and Toyotas available very cheap that'll get better mileage than your Samurai and keep you much safer on the way to work.

 

[rtimgray]

Good advice. I primarily use the Samurai as a daily driver on my 11.3 mile commute, mostly on rural roads and one US highway (where the stoplight is). You are absolutely correct that, by design, it is inherently less safe (forgiving) as newer vehicles. I'm currently driving my 1996 Isuzu Rodeo (which does have ABS) as my daily vehicle.

I did not pump the brakes (did not have the time or forethought to). Had I been able to pump the brakes as quickly as an anti-lock system, then the accident probably could have been avoided. So they did act as though you (and I agree) would have expected.

FWIW, the Samurai gets about 26 mpg (it has a Weber carb and Strictly Suzuki intake), but it still tops out at about 70 mph (and no, I didn't drive it that fast).

Thanks for the advice - it is a good reality check.

Good luck and take care.

 

[Gary Fowler]

There is likely nothing wrong with your brakes. Without ABS on a wet road and jamming on the brakes, the wheels did what they were supposed to do, lock up. Check your brake pads and drums and if they are all good, continue driving it, just give yourself more room to stop.

Evidently you were tailgating or not paying attention to the vehicle in front of you when they applied their brakes since you had to "jam" on yours to stop so the fault is most likely driver error and not mechanical.

 

[Gary Fowler]

One thing to add on ABS. Sometimes they are not the best stopping solution. I once rear ended a car that stopped suddenly on a bridge with the metal expansion joints. I believe that if I had not had ABS, I would have stopped safely. Every time the tires hit those expansion joints and locked up the ABS would allow the wheels to roll a bit without braking then apply pressure again. I could feel the surging in my brake pedal. I finally stopped about 6" past impact point which I do believe I would have stopped several feet from the next cars bumper if I had old fashioned brakes.

 

[newbury]

What is the wear like on the present components? Have you opened up ALL the brakes and examined them? Just replacing parts willy-nilly is what some mechanics do, but then they usually make a profit on the parts,

As others wrote your brakes worked, your following distance didn't work.

Perhaps it's time to stimulate the economy and buy another vehicle for your wife to feel safe in.

 

[rtimgray]

All of you guys are correct - I'm sure that I was following to close (obviously) and that is a habit that I have since worked to correct. I have not inspected all of the components, so I may be merely overthinking this, and trying to fix a problem that is not at the axles, but rather between the steering wheel and the seat.

I've got a rotation of 3 other vehicles that I normally drive (the Rodeo, and Dodge truck and an S-10), so the Samurai is not a necessity, but rather an old favorite. I may just end up giving it a thorough going over and reserve it for trips on pleasant days and be extra-studious in my habits.

Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[LD1]

You have a vehicle without ABS and all the wheels locked up. Thus the only thing that will make a difference in stopping time is going to be the friction between the tires and the road.

Changing all the brake components you listed inst gonna do a thing to make you stop any faster.