Which drainage pipe?

[Lineman North Florida]

I am about to start my french drain project and have a question for some of you guys who have more experience in this area than I do, so here goes. I have heard that the black corrugated pipe in the roll is bad to clog and once clogged cannot be cleaned out and that the solid PVC drainage pipe is not as bad to clog up and can be cleaned out. What are you guys experiences with the 2 different kinds of pipe? Thank's in advance for any information.

 

[hal2001]

I am getting a french drain from a really experienced guy and he will use Pvc. I also know that's what they use for septic drain fields. Good luck

 

[Haoleguy]

Lineman - Most use perforated pipe surrounded by stone and completely wrapped in filter fabric. I've seen some newer drain materials that are being installed around the perimeter of homes made with insulated concrete forms(ICFs) that acts as a perforated mat that collects to a drain and taken out.......ICF Basement .

 

[Combustix]

You can also buy socks for the perf pipe, or buy it with the sock, I have used this and drain rock and so far no problems. One thing I will fill the trench to the top with the rock and not cover it with dirt. Grass will eventually cover the rock yet you will get better drainage

 

[Lineman North Florida]

You can also buy socks for the perf pipe, or buy it with the sock, I have used this and drain rock and so far no problems. One thing I will fill the trench to the top with the rock and not cover it with dirt. Grass will eventually cover the rock yet you will get better drainage

No matter what kind of pipe I go with black corrugated or perforated PVC I'm going to try to use a sock and make sure that I have several inches of rock below and a foot to 18" of rock on top, I am more concerned with the longevity of the drain using the black perforated pipe verses the PVC as I don't want to do this again in 10 years.

 

[Haoleguy]

No matter what kind of pipe I go with black corrugated or perforated PVC I'm going to try to use a sock and make sure that I have several inches of rock below and a foot to 18" of rock on top, I am more concerned with the longevity of the drain using the black perforated pipe verses the PVC as I don't want to do this again in 10 years.

Lineman - That perforated pipe is commonly used for farm field drain tiles. You might take a look at longevity in farm use. These are mostly direct burial with or without sock. I just laid down 750ft of slotted perforated pipe with sock in my field without any gravel around it. I'm expecting > 25 yr use at a minimum. According to the Plastic Pipe Institute the corrugated single wall HDPE pipe is expected to have a >50yr durability( Corrugated Pipe : PlasticPipe.org )...........Gary

 

[JB4310]

I am getting a french drain from a really experienced guy and he will use Pvc. I also know that's what they use for septic drain fields. Good luck

I've been doing drainage/ basement waterproofing work for 28 years, and only used pvc the first year I have not bought a stick of perf pvc since, the only thing they are good for would be a septic leach field.
We do use solid pvc often, for carrying storm water but not for collecting it.

No matter what kind of pipe I go with black corrugated or perforated PVC I'm going to try to use a sock and make sure that I have several inches of rock below and a foot to 18" of rock on top, I am more concerned with the longevity of the drain using the black perforated pipe verses the PVC as I don't want to do this again in 10 years.

If you use enough stone either pipe would be ok, even no pipe.
The more stone below the pipe the better, it provides a greater buffer from sediment buid up.
In the real world, as a contractor we are trying to do the quickest, most cost effective job, for us HDPE is the way to go.
Single Wall – ADS Pipe

I've explained this before on other threads, with perf pvc, once the pipe is 1/3 full of sediment it stops allowing water in thru the holes, that's for the typical pvc with 2 rows of holes on the bottom. with ADS the pipe can be over 90% full and still take in water, because the slots go all around.
I've pulled out plenty of pvc due to this problem, no need to replace ADS until it's completely clogged.

We have never put a filter sock directly on a pipe, but we always use filter fabric lining or over a stone filled trench drain, as conditions may require. I have pulled out perfectly clean drainage pipes both pvc and hdpe due to clogged filter sock. It's relatively easy to clean a drain pipe on the inside, there's no way to clean the outside of the pipe.

What are you referring to when you say "french" drain? It means different things to different people, I know it's a common term, I just don't know how the french got credited with it

JB.

 

[inveresk]

I completely agree with JB4310. You have to surround the pipe with drain rock. Without it, the pipe will silt up. If you use a sock, without drain rock the sock will silt up. Using fabric to separate the drain rock from backfill dirt is also good practice.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I've been doing drainage/ basement waterproofing work for 28 years, and only used pvc the first year I have not bought a stick of perf pvc since, the only thing they are good for would be a septic leach field.
We do use solid pvc often, for carrying storm water but not for collecting it.





If you use enough stone either pipe would be ok, even no pipe.
The more stone below the pipe the better, it provides a greater buffer from sediment buid up.
In the real world, as a contractor we are trying to do the quickest, most cost effective job, for us HDPE is the way to go.
Single Wall – ADS Pipe

I've explained this before on other threads, with perf pvc, once the pipe is 1/3 full of sediment it stops allowing water in thru the holes, that's for the typical pvc with 2 rows of holes on the bottom. with ADS the pipe can be over 90% full and still take in water, because the slots go all around.
I've pulled out plenty of pvc due to this problem, no need to replace ADS until it's completely clogged.

We have never put a filter sock directly on a pipe, but we always use filter fabric lining or over a stone filled trench drain, as conditions may require. I have pulled out perfectly clean drainage pipes both pvc and hdpe due to clogged filter sock. It's relatively easy to clean a drain pipe on the inside, there's no way to clean the outside of the pipe.

What are you referring to when you say "french" drain? It means different things to different people, I know it's a common term, I just don't know how the french got credited with it

JB.

JB4310 maybe I mis-spoke by calling what I am doing a French drain it might just be a rock filled trench with either black corrugated pipe or perforated PVC that I am going to put a slight pitch on the pipe over the 125' length of the ditch so as to carry the water along the route of the ditch, I am also planning on tying in 1 of my downspouts from my gutter system on the house so this pipe will be carrying water not just collecting it. This isn't my specialty and I know it's not rocket science but I want to get all the information that I can from you guys who have done these so I don't mess it up.

 

[rswyan]

I am also planning on tying in 1 of my downspouts from my gutter system on the house so this pipe will be carrying water not just collecting it. This isn't my specialty and I know it's not rocket science but I want to get all the information that I can from you guys who have done these so I don't mess it up.

Generally tying in a surface drain (downspouts) into a french drain is something to be avoided. Surface drains should go to solid pipe (unless you are trying to irrigate something :laughing:

The purpose of a french drain is to drain subsurface water from the soil - so placing more water into (below) the ground is counter-productive.

If you are going to tie the downspouts into the french drain somewhere out in the middle of a field probably not a big deal .... might have a soggy field tho' ....

I sure wouldn't do it anywhere near a structure.

 

[LBrown59]

1*I have heard that the black corrugated pipe in the roll is bad to clog and once clogged cannot be cleaned out .

2*I have heard that the solid PVC drainage pipe is not as bad to clog up and can be cleaned out.
3*What are you guys experiences with the 2 different kinds of pipe? .

1*I had a black corrugated pipe drain about 150' long that really got cloged up bad with leaves.
You can't clean it out because the rotor rooter etc.will tear the thin side walls of it up.

2*This is true.
Here is what I do:
I install one of these

on the inflow end of either type pipe i'm using .
I have never had a pipe clog with one of these screens on it.
You can't buy one of these so I make them my self for the 4 and six inch pipe.
Much easier to clean this few inch long screen that isn't buried than it is to clean dozens of feet of pipe that's buried under ground.

3*Hope this helps out.

 

[LBrown59]

.

1*One thing I will fill the trench to the top with the rock and not cover it with dirt.

1*I saw a guy make this oops last summer .
He dug a trench from ground level clear down to the footer an installed 4'' drainage pipe and then filled it with gravel clear to the top.
He just dug a moat along the house and made sure it would always have a supply of water.
I can't see how this would ever keep water out of a craw space or the floor of a basement.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

1*I had a black corrugated pipe drain about 150' long that really got cloged up bad with leaves.
You can't clean it out because the rotor rooter etc.will tear the thin side walls of it up.

2*This is true.
Here is what I do:
I install one of these

on the inflow end of either type pipe i'm using .
I have never had a pipe clog with one of these screens on it.
You can't buy one of these so I make them my self for the 4 and six inch pipe.
Much easier to clean this few inch long screen that isn't buried than it is to clean dozens of feet of pipe that's buried under ground.

3*Hope this helps out.

LB that is a good idea of that homemade screen filter, in all the things I've read about these drains I have not seen where anyone else has done that. Maybe you should have put a patent on it. Thank's for the advice.

 

[JB4310]

1*I saw a guy make this oops last summer .
He dug a trench from ground level clear down to the footer an installed 4'' drainage pipe and then filled it with gravel clear to the top.
He just dug a moat along the house and made sure it would always have a supply of water.
I can't see how this would ever keep water out of a craw space or the floor of a basement.

It is an extreme approach, but it would keep water out of the basement or crawl space, or anywhere else that's higher than the pipe.
Having the aggregate all the way to the surface would have the added benefit of totally relieving hydrostatic pressure on the foundation walls. So as long as that pipe was lower than the inside floor and had a reliable discharge point, you would be pretty much guaranteed a dry basement.
There are geotextiles that would accomplish the same benefit though without all that stone trap.

It would, depending on the topography, act as a huge water catchment area, and if the discharge pipe ever became blocked you would have more problems than if there were no drainage system in place at all.
Another thing, you never want to try and control the amount of water from a system like that by bringing it inside to a sump pump. I've seen that before, a real nightmare with multi pumps pumping non stop during a storm event.

Any type of exterior footing drain system needs to discharge outside to daylight, even tying it into an existing storm drainage system is risky, due to the threat of a back up in that system which would cause a surge on the footing drains.


JB.