who's next w/ tlb

[capt_met]

we have now seen pics of the new M59 kubota. everyone has an opinion on that. i'm wondering who will bring a machine out in that market next? JCB has their machine. it is almost a copy of the I/R 570. it is a beast for the kubota to go against. with 2 machines in this field already what will be next? articulated? 4 wheel steer like the JCB? tractor based like the kubota? ag tractor based or a new frame? my bet is on deere to come out with a tlb between the 310 and 110. have heard rumors of case doing a little market research. with doosan getting bobcat that may mean they got the rights to the I/R machines. that style of machine is more popular overseas so would they reintroduce them? bored and wondering.

 

[coopers]

IMHO it would be stupid to come out with a backhoe inbetween the 110 and 310 size. Waste of money. It would be interesting to see if Case does anything smaller then their 580's...we'll see. The conexpo in Vegas was a good idea of getting word of what will come out this year with equipment. Nothing mentioned backhoe wise except the series 3 backhoes from Case...just minor improvements.

 

[coopers]

Oh, and btw, where the **** did the M59 come from??? It was never on their website's news link or anything, it's like it just came out of now where....If you're gunna go that size just get a full size machine for gods sake. Case would be a prefered suggestion.

 

[curtisfarmer]

How about the JD210 and I know New Holland offers something similiar, no ho butt with a 3pt. *****.....and what was Kubota thinking, let us not tell anyone about our new top of the line machine. All of us here certainly knew it was coming, but even their website shows the L48. How much does a 580 Case cost, I guess around $90K+/-.

 

[coopers]

Yeah I think it was exremely stupid of Kubota to keep it so hush. I can't believe it isn't on their news feed. Deere released a new high speed dozer, they have a new and improved K series wheel loaders, and two new mini (larger) excavators that are coming out, it's in the news feed and was announced at the conexpo but yet Kubota says nothing. Probably how they're going to bring in their skidsteers if that ever truely does happen. Yeah the JD210's and the Case 570's are the next option to having a larger machine with a 3 pt. hitch, but they're still fullsize, you need a backhoe, just buy a 580/590 or 310/410. I'd say around 80-90 like you said.

 

[capt_met]

as much as i like the case tlb's, fuel isn't getting cheaper, transport any less regulated. rarely do i need the dig depth their 580's have. i do need to be able to lift pallets of stone, dig a trench for footers, some grading, some clearing. most the smaller tlb's struggle with a pallet of stone. few have the creature comforts to look forward to in the winter. for many in between is just right. bigger isn't always better. and i don't like skid steer-mini ex combo's. again too much towing. the tlb i have is great for me and i have no plans to purchase another anytime soon but am curious as to what may be out there when i am ready. just like most i guess i want the perfect machine and when i get it will probaby realize what else it needs. lol. any other ideas? should the machine have a 3point hook up? or hydraulic capacity for high flow attachments?

 

[coopers]

There are a lot of people who don't need the full dig depth of their equipment but they get it because it's the best out there. You said that most smaller equipment can't handle the pallets of stone, a full size TLB can, so you won't need to dig 18 feet down or whatever but you do need to dig trenches, footers, and do some clearing and grading with it....that's what a lot of people need a TLB for so they decide what size from there. The only real kicker is if you don't want to get a CDL to haul the backhoe around, you will then have to go smaller. How heavy is the stone? Is this machine for personal use or for a business? Obviously the larger TLB's have the cabs which is great for hot summers or cold winters, they can lift more, they can clear more because of their power etc. Fuel is fuel, it's expensive anywhere you go with whatever size machine...but if this is for personal use then I guess you have to take into consideration how much you want to spend since you don't have a customer to charge. Either way you are more than likely going to find something you wish you could do with the machine you get. The problem is if you make a machine heavier to handle loads such as pallets of stone it's going to be large enough/heavy enough to require a CDL. So it's a never ending battle.

 

[capt_met]

cdl is not much of a problem. the machine i use is for bussiness. pallet weights are 3000# to 3800#. in my bussiness i am looking for every advantage to save money and be efficient. hard to cover 2 masters but i try. my work is taking me further away lately and i don't think that is going to change in the near future. to go 100 miles to start a job week long job fuel is a concern. if i have to pay for it, i have to charge for it(plus a bit). if i can scrape an edge i'll take it. if the M59 with a cab can do what i need it will be much cheaper to move than the case. not to mention insurance and other costs related to moving larger equipment. main thing in my opinion s things are changing in our economy and construction practices. maybe there are some other options out there for diffrent situations. i didn't mean for this to be a thread about what right in a world with no grey zone. mainly what may be in the grey zone that can help me. the bobcat i have now is ideal, but as i have said no machine runs forever. the bobcat definitly came out of the grey zone. lol almost grey market.

 

[coopers]

No I understand what you mean, I'm just shooting out what I'm thinking....thinking outloud basically. You should always be charging for fuel when you do work so IMO it shouldn't be too big of a concern. I understand you don't want to have the customer paying out the a$% but the customer has to understand that if they want you to do the job it will be expensive because you have to cover your costs. Paying fuel yourself or paying some of it to help lower the cost for the customer is just not good (I may have misunderstood what you ment by that so forgive me if I'm thinking wrong). What is it exactly that you're doing, business wise? It sounds like your in a position that if you can't or do not want a full size TLB then you should go the skidsteer mini trackhoe route. Both can fit on one trailer easily (especially if a CDL is not a concern). There are cabs available for the M59 I'm sure, if not, there will be some very soon; aftermarket that is.

Basically in my opinion, if the M59 doesn't work I would go either full size TLB or get a skidsteer mini trackhoe combo. You can easily cover your butt by charging fuel, travel time etc. to help make a profit and pay for the machine and the cost of running it and trucking it all over the place...customers who don't realize and understand this concept is a customer you don't want to deal with. You can always rent as well. I run my excavation business on the side and eventually I will pick up a kubota mini but until then I rent. I will also continue to rent whatever machine I need that my mini just wouldn't do as quickly and efficiently. Do not try and limit yourself to one machine for ALL tasks. I have seen so many people make this mistake and refuse to rent for a variety of reasons and/or they think their machine can do all when in reality there are some machines that are just best left sitting while a more efficient machine comes in. It sounds to me you're having a problem trying to figure out what machine you can find that can do ALL. It will never happen.

Again, I'm just brain storming with you, not trying to get too political or anything....

 

[capt_met]

coopers,
no offense taken. i do rent from time to time. i also charge for fuel or driving time. anyway i can keep my expenses down will help me stay competitive in a tighter market. i like having a machine that does most of what i need. as of now i have a B300 bobcat tlb and a dingo. these 2 compliment each other very good. of course there are times when there is no sub for a mini ex. when that happens i get one. the skidsteer/mini ex route is one i have thought about often and may one day go in that direction. my concern with the larger tlb's besides weight is damage to existing lawns and tight quarters work around homes. the same with the skid steer. even a track machine can do damage. the tlb i have now has 4 wheel steering and one rain after i have been there no evidence is left. so back to the thread.
coopers, what would need to be in the next tlb of that size to make it more interesting to you? of course realizing it does take a heavier machine to do heavier work. i think many will end up loading the wheels on the kubota to use its power.
good luck,

 

[coopers]

coopers, what would need to be in the next tlb of that size to make it more interesting to you? of course realizing it does take a heavier machine to do heavier work.good luck,

You know I'm not too sure, I quite honestly think that if I had a need for a TLB that size it already has what I need. The work I do almost always requires an excavator; mini to 120 size. But the M59 or L39 have what it takes for certain markets, I'm not sure what more I'd need. They're capable of using a hoe pack or a breaker, tillers, rakes etc. I don't think I'd want anything bigger than an M59 but smaller than say a Case 570. It's either one or the other. They all have what it takes, what more do you want?

What is it you have in mind that you're looking for that isn't already offered?

 

[capt_met]

or me the kubota looks to be a good machine. i'll let some others buy and review them and maybe get a demo at some point. the local kubota dealer is a great guy so doing bussiness with him wouldn't be a problem. rumor had it that after the first year they would add a factory cab. at that point not much left to do for that machine. we'll see.

 

[John White]

Hey Capt: I see you still have the Bobcat 300. I still have the Earthforce EF4. I really like it for the most part. I am like you, I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. I seen a EF5 advertised up north. I could get what he is asking out of my EF4 and move up to a slightly (very) larger back hoe, with no greater investment in money. On my way I stopped at a tractor dealer and found a 1997 JCB 212. It has a burnt wireing harness. I was able to get it for $7000. only 1600 hrs. Not all beat up. This, I think is about 2000 lbs heaiver than the B300. I am hoping it will make me a better set up. The EF4 has been a good money maker. All of us dont need a Case 580 or big back hoe. The B300 like mine has a roomy cab and not cramped when turning around to run the hoe like all smaller hoes in that size. I dont know about the JCB parts situation. And I hear they are expensive. And like you I just cant justify buying a new small hoe for $50,000. Any one who owns a JCB 212 I would like to hear from you and ask some questions. I sure will miss the Bobcat quick attack front bucket.

 

[capt_met]

hey john,
good t hear from you. congrats on the new iron hope it works out well for you. i think before and after pictures are in order.
take care,