Why isn't 3 phase available for homes???

   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #1  

Kyle_in_Tex

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Joined
Oct 24, 2002
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Location
East Central, Texas
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I hope to get some people here who know about electricity and can give me some good answers.
First to preface, everyone is spending countless bucks improving solar power, wind power, wave power you name it power.

From my pea sized knowledge of electicity, I know that 3 phase motors are somewhat more efficient. My buddy was telling me about delta Y type wiring methods and that with 3 phase a motor can use as little as 1/3 the amps. He also says the same can be said for electric water heating and home heating. All this can be done with 1 more leg ran to the home plus a different type of transformer? What gives, no rocket science needed, just not yet common easy to make 3 phase equipment.

He also said that the city of Austin had a round table discussion (between the power company and some electricians) back in the 70's about ways to save energy. He said this idea was presented and many electricians agreed but the idea was shelved he guessed by the power company "because they want to sell electricity". I said what about all the rebates and incentives they offer to reduce consumption? He says they do that to keep the greenies off their backs...

He said the whole house could be converted but the confusion of types of bulbs etc would be a hassle. I asked "Why don't they make it where hard wired stuff is 3 phase?" He said it can be done with money. AC, hot water, heating, dishwasher and oven is where he'd start. He says Europe is somewhat like this.
Is he right about most of this stuff? I know in the south, our cooling bills are really high and if a 3 phase AC unit could run on 33% of the electricity, I know I'd save about $70 a month on just AC.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #2  
Kyle_in_Te

the basics is a Watt is a watt no mater the power and thats how people are billed for lighting and such it wouldn't change mutch.

the only things in a house that that might make since to be 3 phase are large loads like hvac equipment and range and the dryer

they do have 120v 208 3 phase for a compromise between the 120- 220 single phase and 3 phase

look at the chart below

one horse motor 120v 16.amps on 2 wires

same on 3 phase 7.2 amps a little over 1/2 don't forget you now need 3 wires and ground and add another pole to each controller (contactor or thermostat) all adding to cost and you can actually run it on 12 gauge wire you cant go much smaller when you get in to larger loads the wiring is larger and thats wee savings comes in.


HP
110-120V 220-240V 440-480V 550-600V
1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ
1/4 5.8 - 2.9 - - - - -
1/3 7.2 - 3.6 - - - - -
1/2 9.8 4.0 4.9 2.0 2.5 1.0 2.0 0.8
3/4 13.8 5.6 6.9 2.8 3.5 1.4 2.8 1.1
1 16.0 7.2 8.0 3.6 4.0 1.8 3.2 1.4


tom
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #3  
We do have 3 phase power in our pump house. Plus the voltage is really high I think 340 volts. i was taken to the pump house and taught all about it so that i never accidently electrocute myself. We have a big pump for 12 acres of irrigation lines that go up steep hillsides. of course we do run 220volts in the homes here so we are always careful about electrical risks. neither hubby nor myself would ever touch any electrical work here that is for sure.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #4  
The main advantage of 3 phase is in electric motors. They run more efficiently using 3 phase. There's no real advantage to using it in a house. Cost me around $14K to have it installed in the garage/shop a couple of years ago so I have it on my property and I still have no use for it in the house. I only have it to run my machine shop equipment.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #5  
tommu56 said:
Kyle_in_Te

the basics is a Watt is a watt no mater the power and thats how people are billed for lighting and such it wouldn't change mutch.

the only things in a house that that might make since to be 3 phase are large loads like hvac equipment and range and the dryer

they do have 120v 208 3 phase for a compromise between the 120- 220 single phase and 3 phase

look at the chart below

one horse motor 120v 16.amps on 2 wires

same on 3 phase 7.2 amps a little over 1/2 don't forget you now need 3 wires and ground and add another pole to each controller (contactor or thermostat) all adding to cost and you can actually run it on 12 gauge wire you cant go much smaller when you get in to larger loads the wiring is larger and thats wee savings comes in.


HP
110-120V 220-240V 440-480V 550-600V
1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ 1リ 3リ
1/4 5.8 - 2.9 - - - - -
1/3 7.2 - 3.6 - - - - -
1/2 9.8 4.0 4.9 2.0 2.5 1.0 2.0 0.8
3/4 13.8 5.6 6.9 2.8 3.5 1.4 2.8 1.1
1 16.0 7.2 8.0 3.6 4.0 1.8 3.2 1.4


tom

I agree with Tom. There would be a little savings in energy, but the equipment cost more. Most people won't even buy the more efficient 220 volt single phase HVAC units, much less go for the three phase. Most people don't even have compact florescent bulbs, which save 2/3 on energy cost. There are many things that could be done easier and cheaper to save energy.

It is nice for large shop equipment, but at homes this is not usually run many hours a day.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #6  
u can buy a 3 phase converter
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #7  
BobRip said:
I agree with Tom. There would be a little savings in energy, but the equipment cost more. Most people won't even buy the more efficient 220 volt single phase HVAC units, much less go for the three phase.


you are soooo right MR Bob
Folkes cry:( when I give them prices for 220 hvac motors, compressors. I can't think of what I would hear if I priced 3 phase stuff (equip/parts) for the home owner.:eek:

Besides , they would shoot their eyes out:D
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #8  
shimp said:
u can buy a 3 phase converter

They completely defeat the reason for having 3 phase in the first place. Phase converters gobble up quite a bit of power.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #9  
Power is current multiplied by voltage. In it's simplest form the following example applies.
3 amp x 110V = 330 Watts
1 amp x (3 phase x 110V) = 330 Watts
So in my example the three phase load used 1/3 the Amps but still uses the same power.
Most loads will fit this example but as mentioned previously motors are one exception.
 
   / Why isn't 3 phase available for homes??? #10  
We are one of the few houses that have 3-phase in the county, or so the power company told me. They wanted to take it away from us on their last "upgrade" but backed off when I told them that they were welcome to do do so as long as they replaced my A/C and well pump which both use 3-phase. I'm not sure what all the advantages are but both systems have run without incident for the last 30 years in the case of the A/C and 10 years for the well pump. I think that is the main advantage right there, electric motors just last a lot longer on 3-phase, run more efficiently and therefore are cheaper but I think it is only noticible on motors that gobble up power.
 

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