Why left and right brakes?

[KY Gun Geek]

Because you are using individual brakes with throttle applied does it cause excess wear on brake friction surfaces (e.g. "lining", "pads")? For all of the reasons mentioned herein it seems like it would more efficient to have individual throttles compared to individual brakes.

I believe I have seen some big boy earth moving machines that turn one track forward while turning the other in reverse as opposed to only moving one side in a single direction.

So - had to jump in and dig up this zombie because this issue has recently become relevant on our farm.

New employee has come in with lots of experience and says this is the ONLY way to turn a tractor in a field while mowing or using a chain harrow (BTW we care for large flatish areas that we call horse pastures, that you guys might call lawns or golf courses :confused2. With rotary mowers tractors are travelling 5 - 7mph.

However, I'm with stlbill - my observation is that there is a fight between the driveline and the brake, so this is wearing the brake. My instruction to employees is that you stay off the brakes and clutch as much as possible. So - the way I ask people to handle this is to make wide stripes - a wide turn at the end of the row, no brake, no clutch. Go over 2 or 3 rows and start back. kinda hard to explain but very smooth and easier on the tractor. It does take a bit more operator skill to keep the rows parallel.

Regularly mow a 20 acre field and never touch the clutch or brake once you get moving. Heck even the corners are rounded so if you go slow you don't have to back into the corner.

I also tell them to come all the way down on the throttle when they push the clutch in (no engaging the clutch with the rpm's up)

We much less often use the tractors for grading, snow plowing etc - in that case limited use of the split brakes can be very handy as discussed in other posts. Parameters are sparing use, and low speed.

k0ua
Agree that things wear, trick is to do the job with the least wear possible so the equipment lasts the longest and isn't broken when you need it.

One of my guys said I run the equipment like it is my own - which it is.

These are 5 series JD's (2 5085 and a 5093) all have split brakes and diff locks.

 

[CobyRupert]

So - had to jump in and dig up this zombie because this issue has recently become relevant on our farm.

New employee has come in with lots of experience and says this is the ONLY way to turn a tractor in a field while mowing or using a chain harrow ....
.
.
...Agree that things wear, trick is to do the job with the least wear possible so the equipment lasts the longest and isn't broken when you need it.

One of my guys said I run the equipment like it is my own - which it is.

If a brake is holding a tire (versus dragging and slowing a tire) is it really wearing the brake pad?

However, I agree with you. Name of the game is least wear. Fewest starts, fewest cold/hot/cold cycles.

Sharper turns also means field gets torn up more, tires wear more, and pto universals get stressed more.

 

[joeu235]

Turning with the breaks is pretty much a requirement when using a seed drill or boom sprayer.

 

[LouNY]

When we are mowing we will go around 6 times to mow the headlands, then mowing along the long side of the field take a swath at the end we loop up in a gentle turn and then pull back in to mow back down the field leaving a rectangle unmowed at the end swing back next to the first swath and do the second swath at the end loop up and mow back again (this is using a hydro swing first pass mowing to my left the return is mowing to my right) the easier turns are easier on equipment and fields. Disking and Chesil plowing are similar only the equipment is in line behind you so the headlands are not done till last, pull in get lined up lower the implement straight down the field, lift turn in an easy loop, line up lower the implement go back up the field using easy turns and making kind of rectangular loops across a field. The only time we will make a tight turn is planting or mouldboard plowing with a turnover plow where you need to be next to your previous swath.
I believe that this is what KY Gun Geek is doing.
As far as wearing the brakes probably a bit, but we still use a bit of brake at times to reduce gouging in the fields especially with or in 2wd.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would hope that CUTs have equivalent brake pads to big farm tractors. I had driven row crop tractors for 20+years while on the farm and at every turn we used the steering brakes to turn. With 20,000 or more hours on row crop tractors, we have never had to replace the brakes pads. Tractors are designed for that and using them wont wear them out. When used to turn the tractor directly back on a 180 degree, the brakes are basically locked so no to very little slippage is done.
One can damage a pasture significantly if using the steering brakes, so if mowing, using a rectangular block type mowing pattern is well accepted practice and does not require much if any slowing of the machine when turning. This is more in line with ease of work and less damage to the field than it is for lessening the damage to the tractor.

Clutching of a tractor should only be used for stopping and not for slowing for a turn (that is what the throttle is for). "Riding" the clutch is the best way to prematurely burn one out. The clutch should be engaged in a smooth but quick manner but not in a "pop the clutch manner" like a drag racer so there is minimal slippage but also a smooth engagement that doesn't stress the drive train. I also cant recall ever having to replace a clutch on any of our farm tractors most of which we kept for at least 8-10 years before upgrading to larger size. We never traded tractors because they were "worn out".

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Not only sharp turns, but many other purposes. They are extremely useful for "maintaining your line" when there are external forces applied to the tractor. For instance on icy sloping surfaces when you are applying down pressure with a bucket scraping ice off of a sloping driveway. Your steering wheel is useless because you have "unloaded" your front wheels/tires with the down pressure and your only steering mechanism to keep from sliding downhill is you steering brakes. Just give it a little right or left "rudder" and you will be able to maintain a straight line and overcome the force of gravity pulling you to one side. This is similar to flying an airplane and "crabbing" into the wind with the rudder pedal.

Another use is to "screw" the tractor out of a mud hole. say you are stuck, you can sometimes "skew" the tractor sideways or maybe pivot is a better word by locking the spinning wheel in the mudhole and allowing the tractor to pivot around downhill hopefully to a better traction area with the wheel/tire still on solid ground. The idea is to point the tractors nose downhill to allow gravity to assist you getting unstuck.

In a similar idea is when one wheel begins to slip you can apply braking pressure to the slipping wheel/tire which will give the other wheel/tire something to push against in the differential so that it will begin to move over the more tractive surface. Yes I know the idea of a differential lock is to lock both axles together so that both may move, but it is harder to apply and requires a hard solid engagement usually done at very low or even static speed, and the idea of dynamically applying brake pressure to the spinning wheel can be done at higher RPMs and if the operator is "good" can switch pedals rapidly if need be to make the most of tractive forces under each tire.

In summation, yes split brakes can be extremely useful in daily use. I sometimes use them to maintain a line when working dirt right up against a building or concrete footing as it is often better than what can be achieved with using the steering wheel. Split brakes are just one more useful part of the extremely useful tool called a tractor.

Thank you for this. As a newbie, there is a lot of great information in this reply

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

James, that may be the most well-thought-out explanation I've ever read.

+1 Love it when people share knowledge in a clear concise way.

 

[k0ua]

+1 Love it when people share knowledge in a clear concise way.

Thank, you. I write with the reader in mind, and try my best to make things as clear as I can, and explain things from my everyday life.

 

[rd_macgregor]

I used my brakes, split, for the first time a couple of weeks ago. First trip up into the pasture with a round bale and couldn't make it to the feeder because of the mud. Side-slipping toward the fence induced me to use the brakes for steering to keep the tractor headed uphill away from the fence. This all resulted in substantial ruts in the field, but I managed to stay out of the fence. Once I dropped the bale, I could just drive around with no problem. I've since added a heavier item to the 3-PH.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

IF I bought a tractor and then had to worry about breaking or wearing on it because I used the brakes while turning, I would declare THAT tractor a POS and trade it for one that has brakes that COULD be used while turning.

Personally, I can't even understand why anything called a "tractor", would be so poorly built???

SR

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

They're not.

The guy was just asking a question.

A year ago.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Individual brakes were best utilized when sharp turns were needed for drilling wheat etc...

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Individual brakes were best utilized when sharp turns were needed for drilling wheat etc...

Even more so when cultivating...

SR

 

[TerryR]

Even more so when cultivating...

We used Farmall H's for cultivation on hundreds of acres in the 1950s, and always used the steering brakes to turn at the end of every row. They had dry band brakes, nothing like what tractors of today have, and I don't remember every servicing them in years of use. The idea that one might cause damage to a tractor by using the built-in functions fractures my brain.

 

[Farmer495]

So - had to jump in and dig up this zombie because this issue has recently become relevant on our farm.

New employee has come in with lots of experience and says this is the ONLY way to turn a tractor in a field while mowing or using a chain harrow (BTW we care for large flatish areas that we call horse pastures, that you guys might call lawns or golf courses :confused2. With rotary mowers tractors are travelling 5 - 7mph.

However, I'm with stlbill - my observation is that there is a fight between the driveline and the brake, so this is wearing the brake. My instruction to employees is that you stay off the brakes and clutch as much as possible. So - the way I ask people to handle this is to make wide stripes - a wide turn at the end of the row, no brake, no clutch. Go over 2 or 3 rows and start back. kinda hard to explain but very smooth and easier on the tractor. It does take a bit more operator skill to keep the rows parallel.

Regularly mow a 20 acre field and never touch the clutch or brake once you get moving. Heck even the corners are rounded so if you go slow you don't have to back into the corner.

I also tell them to come all the way down on the throttle when they push the clutch in (no engaging the clutch with the rpm's up)

We much less often use the tractors for grading, snow plowing etc - in that case limited use of the split brakes can be very handy as discussed in other posts. Parameters are sparing use, and low speed.

k0ua
Agree that things wear, trick is to do the job with the least wear possible so the equipment lasts the longest and isn't broken when you need it.

One of my guys said I run the equipment like it is my own - which it is.

These are 5 series JD's (2 5085 and a 5093) all have split brakes and diff locks.

What size/type of tractor was your employee used to? Big difference in the "need" on some machines.

I use brakes when needed, not "all the time"

What I do find is 2wd tractors or inadequate front weight with larger 3pt loads on soft surfaces you need brakes to steer. The 2wd tractors here have the brakes unlocked all the time, you need them! The 4wd/FWA I hardly have the pedals unlocked since the larger tires and 4x4 pulls you around a turn.

Ran 3pt mower on the 2wd, you had to steer almost every turn with the brakes, same mower on the 4wd, never needed brakes yet.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Even more so when cultivating...

SR

And yet even more so for YouTube "Rolling the tractor in some unnamed third world country " videos.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

And yet even more so for YouTube "Rolling the tractor in some unnamed third world country " videos.

Yeaaa, tractors don't come with a "brain", you have to use your own...

SR

 

[Sawyer Rob]

double post

 

[daugen]

Before I spent a great deal of money buying a front weight rack and weights for my larger Massey, my first attempts
at pulling a Land Pride disc harrow were real eye openers at the end of the row. Even with disc raised tractor was a bear to turn, and had to
throttle way down, since there was almost no weight on the front, relatively. I had not used steering brakes for 50 years, since I plowed snow as a teenager with a JD B.
No diff lock on that so you had to use the brakes to keep from digging in and getting stuck in the snow.

Fast forward 50 years and now I have a challenging and frankly not very safe situation trying to steer the tractor, plus not running into neighbor's bean patch planted too close to where I was,
not enough head room. So...I tried using the steering brakes and whooeeee, I was spinning around at the end of the row like a teacup. Front wheels would almost lift off the ground and I got pretty good timing it as to when to stop the spin. Ok, now with the proper weights up front I don't do that any more, nor would I want to. You really have to hang on and with severe arthritis, it's just too hard on me.

I started doing what was previously referred to about half way through, going up about three or four rows so I didn't have to hit the brakes at all.

Neighboring elderly farmer has an ancient JD, on its very last legs.
He uses his brakes on every turn.
Was complaining to me about his brakes.
What's the matter?
Wore out.

so they can wear out, particularly on poorly maintained equipment. Everything this man touches he wrecks (severe alcoholic)
and no surprise he wrecked his brakes. But otherwise, certainly if in an oil bath, those linings are probably rated for what 10k hours?
I'm sure it has everything to do with how hard and how long you use them.

I did have the brakes changed on my Super A recently, what a difference. Originals were primarily oil soaked, but not worn through since 1955.
I had to of course fix the seal drip so the new linings wouldn't get oil on them, sort of the opposite of oil bath. They had one and didn't want one....

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I was using the individual brakes today, to get back into the row where I wanted be, as I was rototilling.

Today was my first tillage of the year...

SR