Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator?

   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #1  

jcmseven

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Dec 19, 2004
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2,314
Location
western NC
Tractor
JD 2320; 4520
My 825i Gator has 68 hours on it. I bought one (actually two) for my dad and they all have run great. I work mine pretty hard pulling trailers, plowing lots of snow in winter, hauling things, etc. (I even drove it to work one bad winter day last year). I noticed and mentioned in a post several months ago that JD puts racing fuel in their 825i tanks for shipment to dealers. I am by no means a petroleum engineer but was told that the reason was due to stability during shipment and of octane if the machine sits for a prolonged period of time before being sold. Don't know, but that sounds reasonable.

We have a local store that sells Sunoco 116 Blue "leaded" racing fuel. Leaded being the key word. It is freshly shipped to him in 55 gallon drums and he sells about 300 gallons monthly during summer racing season to local drag racers and usually has a drum or two sold over the winter. Two weeks ago, I bought five gallons at a total price of $38.50. He said he would sell it to me for "less than $6.00 per gallon" in the winter due to demand slowing from the local racers. I mixed it carefully with BP 93 octane unleaded fuel (my usual) 2 gallons to 3. I ran through my first tank just two days ago and felt that the engine ran better in general, and I do not think it was placebo. It started great and seemingly ran smoother both at idle and WOT. I did not perceive any more power, though I could convince myself the throttle response was a bit snappier. The only thing I could note objectively was the definite REDUCTION in the amount of fuel the Gator used. I generally get five-six hours of run-time out of the Gator running super unleaded; with the mix, it was almost eight hours before it went empty. With many possible variables at play, one cannot attribute this to the 40% addition of racing fuel, but could have been that in part. And, finally the smell of the exhaust (the best part)--like a NASCAR stock car!! That alone is worth doing it from time to time and paying the money to do so for me. My question is whether I risk doing any damage to my engine by running this mix. Since there are no emissions systems on the engine, does it hurt the little Chery engine to use this (does not seem so right now)? Second, these engines are not too high compression, so I wonder if early detonation is even a concern. I know that unleaded racing fuel is also available but it does not appear as though the octane is as high--and I know higher octane does not necessarily mean a better running engine. I do not plan to do this mix with each tank, but want to make as sure as I can that I do not damage the engine. There is not mention about it in the owners manual, nor have I been able to find any discussion of the topic in any of the Chery engine topics I have researched to suggest it is a bad idea. Thoughts??

John M
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #2  
The only downside I think will be the sparkplug(s) will not last as long.
The only upside, not counting any perceived performance improvements, is you get gas with NO ethanol, if you use it 100%.
A station near me sells high octane leaded racing fuel, not sure of the brand, and I thought a little over $5 a gallon was high....
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #3  
I run straight racing fuel sunoco in my klx 450r dirt bike. I do believe with this fuel u do have to go up on your main jet. It tends to run lean with this fuel. About the plug, I have not had a issue with mine and been running it since may. It does run cooler in the summer and alittle more power. U will be fine.
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #4  
Hiya,

Nope, no issues, just better running, more power and fuel economy. Pump gas has 10% ethanol, oxaginates and other emissions control additives. Most racing fuels do not have these additives unless they are a race/street blend. A 100% gasoline product has more BTU's per gallon than a 90-10 blend, more BTU's per gallon = more MPG and more power.

Your Gator does not need 116 RON but it won't hurt anything. Octane is the resistance to detonation based against a research standard mix burned in a standard test engine that establishes the "100" rating. So if a fuel has more resistance to detonation it is assigned a higher number, less resistance, a lower number.

The only concern would be if the Gator has an O2 sensor as the tetraethyl lead (TEL) will flash coat the ceramic materials and cause it to malfunction. If there is no O2 sensor, no worries.

Another option would be SEF by VP Racing fuels, it's a 100% gasoline product, unleaded and comes in 5 gal cans.

My 2 cents and the octane stuff is from memory so I may not be 100% on the procedure, don't kill me if I missed something.

Tom
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #5  
you can run MORE timing with the higher octane fuel so timing is not what you need to be concerned with with running race gas. with the mix you are not going to have detonation issues but as others have said it will destroy O2 sensors. Being that the 825i is fuel injected it has to have a O2 sensor.
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #6  
Overkill.

What you want for stability is Avgas 100LL. Kicks the crap out of stabil.
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #7  
I run straight racing fuel sunoco in my klx 450r dirt bike. I do believe with this fuel u do have to go up on your main jet. It tends to run lean with this fuel. About the plug, I have not had a issue with mine and been running it since may. It does run cooler in the summer and alittle more power. U will be fine.

It is a fact that leaded gas cuts spark plug life, more than half according to some sources. Maybe you haven't run your bike enough to see it yet.
Many of us old timers remember changing spark plugs often in the leaded gas days, now they commonly last 100,000 in cars.
Is it a big deal- probably not, depends on how hard the plugs are to get to;)
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #8  
you can run MORE timing with the higher octane fuel so timing is not what you need to be concerned with with running race gas. with the mix you are not going to have detonation issues but as others have said it will destroy O2 sensors. Being that the 825i is fuel injected it has to have a O2 sensor.

Nope.;) Quite a few fuel injected engines have no O2 sensor, neither my motorcycle nor my outboard have O2 sensors, both 4 stroke, electronically controlled fuel injection.
 
   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #9  
Hiya,

Depends on if the EFI design is a closed or open loop design.

Open loops are the simplest, they use a fuel and timing map burned into an eprom and rely on those mapping data points to meter fuel to the engine based on RPM and throttle position. Most have no O2 sensor

Closed loop designs use an O2 sensor and can use more complex emission control devices such as a tri-bed converter and pre and post O2 sensors.

An open loop system without an O2 sensor will tolerate some TEL however I would not make a it a steady diet. A closed loop system must use no lead fuel and most require an oxygenated fuel as well if they are a pre/post O2 sensor design.

My Buell has a closed loop EFI and uses an O2 sensor so I'm limited to no lead fuels.


Shorter plug life is more likely. However since we are dealing with a modern ignition system such as CD or a Mag/LED triggered secondary coil, it won't really be an issue. The short plug life issue stems from the older magneto or breaker point systems in use at the time when TEL was the primary fuel additive.
The main difference between the 2 systems is "rise time" of the secondary voltage potential from 0 volts to it's maximum potential voltage to arc the gap and initiate a flame kernel to start to combust the fuel/air mixture. The TEL will deposit on the plugs center electrode insulator starting at the coldest point, where the insulator meets the shell deep down in the plug. As the engine runs, more and more TEL will deposit on the center electrode. Eventually there will be a very thin coating on the insulator. With an older ignition system, one with a slow rise time, the voltage will "leak" down the outside of the electrode coated with TEL as a conductor. Instead of the voltage building to a potential of say 20K volts and having enough potential to create a spark across the gap, total voltage is now less than say 5K volts and the plug won't spark.
With the newer electronic ignition systems, the rise time is so fast that the voltage does not have time to "leak" down before maximum potential is reached and the gap is arced.

My2 cents,

Tom

Afterthought: 100LL is not a low lead fuel. It was developed as a lower lead alternative for Avgas 100 green. If you really want the lead, get your hands on some 115/145 purple mil spec fuel. Originally made for the Pratt and Whitney radials used in the war birds. It has about 6x the TEL as pump gas had in the 70's.
 
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   / Will mixing Sunoco Racing Fuel hurt my 825i Gator? #10  
Not sure what the compression ratio is on those Gators, or what kind of fuel they call for, but my guess is they call for 87 octane.

Just FYI, you will gain ZERO power by running high octane fuel in an engine like that.
 

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