Working in Ponds

paccorti · Feb 12, 2002

I've been digging out my pond lately and thought I'd share some of what I've learned.

1. Wet clay (and wet mud) is generally VERY heavy. Be careful and keep the bucket as low as possible.
2. Loader breakout is particularly challenging when the bucket is partially submerged (as you have to break the suction of the water). Roll forward and back slightly to help break the suction.
3. You need a real gentle slope into and out of the pond to carry anything of significant weight (as traction is a problem).
4. Driving backwards for half of each trip (as opposed to turning the tractor around twice per load) is MUCH faster.
5. Clay is positively EVIL with regards to getting stuck.
6. Even little branches hurt. While backing up after dumping a load in the woods I bent back a 3/4" branch with the rollbar. The branch then promptly let go and slapped me in the face. If I was to put an estimate on the force of this, I'd say it's like bending back a wood yard stick about 2' and then firing into your upper cheek. Ouch!
7. Many times I was able to drive to a spot where I wanted to remove material, BUT filling the loader bucket would then sink the front wheels in the muck... sometimes a smaller load is better.
7. Sometimes you have to get creative to get material out of a spot with limited traction. On trick seemed to work well. Many times I've had to back the tractor out of the muck by using bucket curl (when the bucket is pointed downwards) to push me out of a sticky situation. Usually though, if I was careful I could pull quite a bit of material with me. All the while keep the bucket pointed down then, push the bucket deep and roll to push yourself out then lift slightly and dump to pull material with you; repeat until you get onto solid ground. Worked well for me.
8. My tractor has R4s. I wonder if R1s would have been better. I know that R1s clear mud better but this is all based on the premise that there is something more solid below the mud (not necessarily the case in a pond, some places were over 2' of gooey clay). I expect the R1s might press down harder (higher psi) and tend to bury the tires quicker. No way of knowing for sure but just thinking out loud here...

Peter

njrqs · Feb 12, 2002

Wow that is a lot of info. Keeping us all informed. I take it your pond dried out by itself?

Not having a FEL, I got a 12T excavator in to play in mine. I don't think I'd like to be playing in mine with a tractor anyway. As you say, very easy to get stuck and hard to get back out of.

Send some pics of you in action !

Cheers

MossRoad · Feb 12, 2002

Sounds fun. Some pictures of your pond would be cool. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

paccorti · Feb 12, 2002

I'll try to get some pictures. Unfortunately my scanner is down since my XP upgrade. I'll work on it again.

Peter

Robert_in_NY · Feb 13, 2002

Word of advice, next time you dig it out let the material set on the bank for about a month that way it has a chance to dry out and you won't be sinking on wet ground. R1's would have helped because they grab unlike R4's that mostly float. The R1's would have pulled you thru most of it with no problem but will leave more of a mess then a R4. When we dug our pond we used a Komatsu PC 150 to dig it and a JD 450G to clear the fill away from the banks. All the material was clay and shale and tracked machines have no trouble on them most of the time.

gmason · Feb 13, 2002

Peter, we went though the pond digging process a few years ago and here's what we ended-up with... <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/forumfiles/33-37728-pond_finished_summer00.jpg>our pond</A>

I would also warn you about punching into some natural springs. This is not the best time of the year to be digging out a pond anyway. We have some neighbors that are starting to build and they pourded footings a few weeks ago and everytime it rains(about every 4 days) they have to dig the 4-5" of muck off the concrete footings and pump water out of the lower side. And they've totally trashed any topsoil around the house site.

gary

paccorti · Feb 13, 2002

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have no doubt that tracked machines would have made this easier but I'm stubborn and besides I wanted a lot of tractor time!

The pond had drained quite a bit on its own, I helped it along in a couple of sections with a trash pump. All in all I'm pleased with the performance of my TC35D; I think it did a great job on the excavation.

Peter

duanet · Feb 14, 2002

Peter,
I'm picking up on one comment you made in your original post - the slap in the face. I've been doing a lot of work clearing brush and have had similar experiences. Baileys Online has what they call a Sordin Helmet for $29.95. It's a hard hat with ear and eye protection. Actually, the face screen is like a full face shield but doesn't fog over because it is a screen. I got one a couple of weeks ago, and I think it's great. If you're interested, Baileys is at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.baileys-online.com/store/USA.htm>http://www.baileys-online.com/store/USA.htm</A>.
Duane

paccorti · Feb 15, 2002

Duane,

Thanks for the thought. I have a full face motocross helmet that I could use (it is even appropriately blue). I probably should use it, might get more stares than I need from my neighbors. On the other hand that branch really did hurt. When I put a gloved hand on my face I was sure I would pull it away bloody.

Peter

patrickg · Feb 20, 2002

Bucket suction: I wonder if you could put a piece of pipe or two, say at the ends of the bucket to break the suction under the bucket. One end of each pipe would be near the top of the open bucket and the other end near where the suction is. This should let air, or water if the bucket is in deep enough, get into the area that is pulling the vacuum and relieve it. Hopefully the pipe being at the sides of the bucket wouldn't let it get trashed tooooo fast. I suppose if you want high tech you could use a compressor and a small accumulator tank to supply compressed air under the bucket but I think plain ole pipes would do it..
I have eight ponds in need of de-silting, two of which need dam restoration to allow them to fill to the design height (depth?). The other six are brim full and overflowing as underground water comes in on the uphill sides. I nearly got stuck twice with the front wheels just barely in the water and the bucket curl save me readily once. the other time I had to hunt up downed wood to put under the front tires while holding the wheels in the air with the bucket. I had sunk so deep that the front axle was burried so the curl couldn't save me until I raised the front with debris (sticks). Of course unpredicted rain started to fall about 10 min into this 40 min evolution.
I'm thinking maybe a long cable with two turning blocks anchored to good deadmen so I can shuttle back and forth (without turning around, just like you recommend) keeping the tractor high and dry while pulling a scoop through a pond. I've heard of it being done with two tractors. A big one to pull the muck out and a little one in opposition to pull the empty bucket/scoop back across the pond. Two tractors would be great and easier to manuever to dig anywhere in the pond B U T I'm one guy with one tractor soooo...
I have been considering using a pump to make a suction dredge to suck out the finer silt. Need to research the horse power vs gallons/unit time, length of run, head (height desired above pond to deposit removed material) and on and on. I know it can be done (we put men on the moon) but is it cost effective? At least it is something one guy could do.

Best of luck to you with your pond work,

Patrick