Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here.

   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #1  

motoguy

New member
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
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5
Location
Central MO
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n/a
Just purchased a new home, and I'm looking for a tractor. About 5 acres, most of which is flat and wooded (but no brush). The other area is wooded, brushy, and on a steep slope (going down to a creek). In SW/Central MO, lots of rocky soil/areas. I have about a 25' cliff on one edge of the property, dropping to the creekbed, for example. I'm planning on adding a 40x60 shop, and trying to justify a tractor as a way to save some $$ on the building excavation. Excavator friend of mine quoted $8k or so for groundwork.

I'd like to do the groundwork (mostly fill, removing some stumps/trees/brush, and digging trench for foundation/retaining wall. Uses after that would be occasional trenching, hole digging, box blade work, continuing to fill/smooth areas of the lot, loader work, brush/grapple clearing, snow removal, digging gravel from creek bank, etc. No plow work that I can envision. No baler, no hay, etc. Yard/clearing/general work, not much in the farming/ground implement realm. This may be used on land of family members as well, but it'll just be more of the same, just on larger plots.

I'm currently thinking something in the high 30's-mid 40's HP range. I've heard many nightmare stories of expensive HST repairs, which had initially scared me from the HST option. These stories were mostly based on smaller garden-tractor/riding mower type units, vs larger tractors. This is something I'd like to buy and "keep forever", so I'm looking for durability. I'm very mechanically inclined, so repairs/mods/maintenance don't scare me. I went into this search thinking "I want a manual shift model", but I'm reading LOTS of selling points on HST for the type of work I want to do.

I've gone down the "new tractor fantasy", pricing models on the LS and Kubota websites. I have a few LS dealers that are "local enough", so that's a good thing. The reality, though, is that I just don't see myself justifying the purchase of a new tractor. The backhoe equipped Kubota I priced out was $45k. lol It seems like there are no shortage of older FEL equipped tractors in the $11-$18k range.

Which brings me to...the backhoe. Based on my readings, I'd want to avoid 3 point hoe attachments. Sounds like stuff starts breaking when they get used hard. That leaves me with frame mounted models. This limits my choices more when I start shopping used.

So...how "stout" is a hoe on a tractor of this size? Strong enough to dig a foundation in this (what will without doubt prove to be) rocky soil? Reasonable to think I can dig foundation/retainer wall trenches with something like this? I'll need to run power/water to the shop as well, so there are additional trenching options. Building berms, digging around tree roots, clearing gravel/sediment build up where the creek enters the lake, etc. These are all envisioned usages of the backhoe. Other items I may want "back there" would be box blade and wood splitter. No brush hogging/plowing for me.

I'm wondering if a backhoe on a unit of this size is just a waste of resources, for my intended purposes. It looks like used backhoe machines can be found in the $7k-$15k range. Heck, my family HAS an old Case 580C, but it needs a completely new engine, and lots of TLC to bring back to life (It's sat with the head off the engine for probably 10 years now, exposed to the elements). I can HAVE that thing if I want it, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort to put back together.

I'm totally new to the tractor world, but very mechanically minded. What are common issues to check on old machines? Engine smoke/knock/leaks, of course. Hydraulics/pumps are totally new to me. I noticed the (rotting) Case has lots of nicks/chips on some of the hydraulic cylinders. From my motorcycle days, I know that chips on tubes (forks) kill seals (fork tube seals), and assumed the same for tractor hydraulics. However, looking at other used examples, it seems that chipped/scratched/"blemished" chrome on cylinders is pretty common. Is it not that big of a deal on these machines?

I'm just trying to decide the best route to go. I LOVE the idea of driving away from the LS dealer with a new XR4046HC, but...I doubt I'll be able to justify that. We drive old cars and live in a nice house. If I'm not able to justify a care newer than 3-4 years, I don't think I'll be able to justify a new tractor. LOL My main reason for searching new is due to my lack of knowledge on them, which worries me about buying used.

Any advice, input, anecdotes, suggestions, etc for my situation would be greatly appreciated.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #2  
You have asked so many questions in your opening post it is hard to answer.

Here is a link to the T-B-N archive, the search being TRACTOR FOR FIVE ACRES: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=+tractor+for+five+acres+site:tractorbynet.com

There are hundreds of germane threads presented.

From your list of potential uses you definitely need a backhoe. But I think your real question is do I need a utility tractor with a backhoe or a dedicated backhoe unit, such as a Kubota L45, where the backhoe is the central piece of the tractor combination?

More from the T-B-N archive, KUBOTA L45: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Kubota+L45++site:www.tractorbynet.com
 
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   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #3  
If a friend quoted you $8K for the work, there must be quite a bit of work involved to get it right.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #4  
A tractor doesn't make much sense for the uses you list except the back blade. You're talking about digging, and moving dirt for the most part. Even a large tractor can't do that nearly as well as a loader backhoe will. A new engine in that Case would be less expensive than buying a tractor, and you'll get more done in less time.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #5  
If a friend quoted you $8K for the work, there must be quite a bit of work involved to get it right.

Thats what I was thinking too, 8K sounds like 4 or 5 days, I'd think site prep for a 40x60 shop if generally level and small trees would be 2 days max maybe 1 day. Unless there's details you're not telling us. :D For example does his eqpt have to sit at your place until site inspection is signed off?

If you buy a good backhoe for the going value, you can resell it for the same after working it for a couple years. After 2 years you'll know about tractors. If you buy a $45k piece of new eqpt, and didn't really need it, then some other craigslister gets your value when you decide to sell it for $25k. I'd look for a $15,000 L-series Kubota myself. If you're in a hurry these cost around $20,000. After you pay $20k, you will see one for $15, sorry there's no way around it except to go ahead and buy the $15k unit too, and sell your $20k to the next poor bugger in a hurry. :D

Case 580 is a nice machine, but may need all new hoses and loads of other stuff by now. If it's 2wd it can be pretty helpless on uneven terrain.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here.
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thats what I was thinking too, 8K sounds like 4 or 5 days, I'd think site prep for a 40x60 shop if generally level and small trees would be 2 days max maybe 1 day. Unless there's details you're not telling us. :D For example does his eqpt have to sit at your place until site inspection is signed off?

Actual off-the-cuff quote was "$7500 or so". I think a large part of it will be fill, and there may be consideration for the rocky terrain in there. There's a 5' or so drop across the length, so several loads of gravel to bring in. I'll have to pay for fill either way...but "it's going to cost $8k, may as well put that towards a tractor" is MUCH easier when explaining my intended purchase to the wife. ;)

If you buy a good backhoe for the going value, you can resell it for the same after working it for a couple years. After 2 years you'll know about tractors.

Excellent point.

If you buy a $45k piece of new eqpt, and didn't really need it, then some other craigslister gets your value when you decide to sell it for $25k. I'd look for a $15,000 L-series Kubota myself. If you're in a hurry these cost around $20,000. After you pay $20k, you will see one for $15, sorry there's no way around it except to go ahead and buy the $15k unit too, and sell your $20k to the next poor bugger in a hurry. :D

I stopped and looked at an (obviously used, possibly abused) L3250 the other day. It's parked at a business, but it's not clear if it's for sale or not. Bucket and hoe. I'd love to have something like that for <$15k. I'd consider that ideal.

Case 580 is a nice machine, but may need all new hoses and loads of other stuff by now. If it's 2wd it can be pretty helpless.

It is 2wd, which is part of my concern. Some of the work I want to do is behind the house, on a slope down to the creek. I'm not sure how 2wd would do on that. In addition, the soil is quite mossy/loamy, which also doesn't bode well for the 2wd aspect. I could see the big floaty 2wd Case getting stuck out there. I assume that really just translates to "more / better planning needed before it's attempted".

Something like this might be an ideal solution, though. Pull the hoe off the old Case, pop it on this, and call it done. 1977 Case 580C front end loader

I'm limited in my ability to do anything for another 30 days, so I'm trying to focus in a general direction at this time.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here.
  • Thread Starter
#7  
A tractor doesn't make much sense for the uses you list except the back blade. You're talking about digging, and moving dirt for the most part. Even a large tractor can't do that nearly as well as a loader backhoe will. A new engine in that Case would be less expensive than buying a tractor, and you'll get more done in less time.

There will be a lot of brushwork involved, but I'm assuming a grapple could be fitted onto a loader backhoe as well.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #8  
I'm into nearly the same sort of project. Time wasn't a factor as much as cost and the pleasure of doing things myself. I'm on a bit larger of a plot, and am taking my fill from other areas of the property to build my new building on. I purchased a Mahindra 4035HST, because for the overall dimensions of the machine it was really the largest thing I could operate on the parts of my land I'm working on, and do so efficiently (read that as "not knocking over other structures and trees and whatnot by accident"). Out of the machines that fit the dimensions, the 4035HST was the heaviest (weight is the most crucial stat for a unit made for dirt work).

If you look at all the current professional grade loaders and such, they all use HST anymore. Big units aren't prone to the failures of the smaller lawn tractors.

Generally my method of gathering fill is to find a hump I want to remove, use the box blade and drag the topsoil up the hill and leave in a pile above the hump I'm removing. Tear into the hump with either the box blade or backhoe and get everything loosened up and in a pile, use the loader to move the pile to the dumper, drag that to my fill spot. Rinse and repeat... Once the hump is gone, use the box blade to drag the topsoil back out.

I've sorta somewhat lucked out and ended up with much more "fill" usable from a much closer location than initially anticipated. I learned nobody ever installed a septic system at the farm (could have sworn that was something granny had done), so I've had a good bit of fill from installing a 1500 gallon tank and installing a drain field for it.

Subframe mounted hoes are good for any sort of major digging. Granted they're not generally as powerful as the dedicated backhoe units, but with a a decent operator you'd never know the difference looking at a finished hole.

Tank%20in%20the%20hole.jpg

That hole was initially dug just large enough for the tank with the backhoe on my 4035, but when waiting a few days for the tank delivery the sides collapsed (you can tell the hole is wider at the bottom than the top) and I had to dig a ramp down into it to clean it out. Mostly dug the ramp with the loader.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #9  
The hydrostatics on lawn/garden tractors are far removed from what's on a real tractor, so don't worry about what you've read. The Tuff Torq transmissions on cheap riding mowers have had a lot of failures, but I don't recall reading about any HST failures on real tractors on this forum, for any of the brands. That says a lot since there are a lot of brands of tractors covered here.

I'd say manual transmission is better for mowing, row cropping, and prolonged ground engaging work, but for loader work, landscaping, or grading, HST all the way.
 
   / Wow, this tractor world is deep. Looking for some general info here. #10  
Something like this might be an ideal solution, though. Pull the hoe off the old Case, pop it on this, and call it done. 1977 Case 580C front end loader

I'm limited in my ability to do anything for another 30 days, so I'm trying to focus in a general direction at this time.

If you can get that project done in your 30 days, you could have a sellable machine worth $8-9,000 (???). If you can't get it all done in 30 days, get a tractor that's ready to work. Your plate will be full after the project starts. Having deadlines, with start dates, inspection dates, and eqpt that doesn't work is no fun. Running out of money (with the above-mentioned deadlines) is no fun either.

My dad has a case 580C, 2WD, it gets stuck.
 

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