Well, I must tell you I'm stupid. Like I said I had the X485 for two weeks and traded up to the X585, so I could add the loader later. If I go back to the dealer he will probably go and get the straight jacket. I will stay with my X585 for 2-3 years, then trade up to the 4110. I love the X series, just unaware of the benefits of the 4000 series until I read the posts here. I thought the 4000 would be overkill, but in reading these posts, I've come to another conclusion. I'll just have to wait for my ultimate tool, the 4000 series. Just to let you know I have 5 acres, halk wooded half grass. Alot of work to be done with escavator and cat before I can really use the FEL. I'm just a little pissed with the dealer not realizing my lack of knowledge and telling what I needed, rather then selling me what I thought I wanted. Dang, for a little more I could of had the 4010. Hey does anyone know If you can use the JD promise twice? I.E. trade up from the X485AWS to the X585, then up to 4010? Like I said I must be stupid!!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif