Yet another what truck question

[DUSTMAKER]

Decided to get a new wheel loader Deere 244J. Problem is the only way I can haul it with my current trailer is to put the attachments including bucket on a flat bed truck and 2K tung weight on the pintle hitch. Question is can I haul 4k pounds of attachments on a 12' flatbed with 2k tung weight on an F350 or would that be overloading the rear axle on the typical one ton? Do I really need an F450 size truck? I only want to spend about 10K on a used one and could probably get a F350 in better condition in that price range. Any thoughts?

Thank you
Paul

 

[Egon]

Check the load ratings of the vehicles you are considering. Also think about a different trailer.

 

[LoneCowboy]

Dang, I just looked it up on Deere's website
that thing is heavy!!!!
it weighs 11,552lbs!!!

You're looking at needing a 20k lb trailer (since the trailer itself probably weighs 7k or so) (meaning two duals 10,000axles)
Which, of course, puts you over 26,000lbs rated, which means CDL (unless you are a farmer, used for farming within 150 miles)

Certainly a F350 will haul it, you see it all the time, personally I would want more truck just for stopping power. It's going to be heavy and very tall.

 

[Renze]

You're looking at needing a 20k lb trailer (since the trailer itself probably weighs 7k or so) (meaning two duals 10,000axles)
Which, of course, puts you over 26,000lbs rated, which means CDL (unless you are a farmer, used for farming within 150 miles)

Certainly a F350 will haul it, you see it all the time, personally I would want more truck just for stopping power. It's going to be heavy and very tall.

For safe towing, you dont want more stopping power on the truck: you need more stopping power on the trailer. A trailer should normally brake faster than the truck, if not, you'll feel a nasty wag in the rear of the tow vehicle everytime you brake.

In Holland, everything above 3.5 ton weight on the axles, needs power brakes with ABS by law: in 99% of the cases, this is air brakes. (some experiment with hydraulic) With proper air brakes with ALR/ABS/EBS, (standard on most light 5th wheels we build) and enough kingpin weight, you'll still be safe if one of the two circuits of the truck brakes would fail completely.

I suppose its just what people are used to: We have the luxury of air brakes and all the stability gadgets, so i wouldnt feel comfortable with electric brakes at 12 to 13 ton GCVW....


If you had a typical 1 ton pickup, getting rid of the body, and mounting a 5th wheel on the chassis, pulling a trailer with a 2nd floor above the 5th wheel, will give you a short manoeuverable and lightweight trailer.
Generally speaking, the shorter you make the trailer, the less dead weight you'll carry. Using a chassis-cab with a 5th wheel with a floor above the 5th wheel will be most efficient, weight vs. load rating.

 

[Builder]

Decided to get a new wheel loader Deere 244J. Problem is the only way I can haul it with my current trailer is to put the attachments including bucket on a flat bed truck and 2K tung weight on the pintle hitch. Question is can I haul 4k pounds of attachments on a 12' flatbed with 2k tung weight on an F350 or would that be overloading the rear axle on the typical one ton? Do I really need an F450 size truck? I only want to spend about 10K on a used one and could probably get a F350 in better condition in that price range. Any thoughts?

Thank you
Paul

When you say "typical one ton" do you mean SRW or DRW?

It would also be helpful to know the weight of the tractor. I'm assuming 2K tongue weight is derived from a guess of 10% tongue weight x 20,000lbs trailer = 2,000 lbs tongue weight?

4K of attachements and 2K of tongue weight is a total of 6,000 lbs. Since you want to spend ~$10K on a used pickup, you'd be buying an older truck. Typical older one ton F-350 SRW has a payload of about 3,000lbs (9,900 GVWR-7,000lbs empty weight). Typical older DRW F-350 has a payload of about 4,000lbs (11,500 GVWR- 7,500lbs empty weight). Typical GCWR's are ~20,000lbs. Once again-all depending on the used truck brand & specs that you buy. A 20K trailer is way too much for a truck with a GCWR of 20K. You need a GCWR of like 26K or better yet, more like 28-30K. That's F-450/550 with a payload package territory or a bigger medium duty chassis.

The newer F-450/550 trucks have a higher GVWR & GCWR and are better suited for your needs.

So neither of the older style one ton trucks are going to support 4,000lbs of weight in the bed and a 2K pin weight from a 20K trailer without issues unless you feel comfortable being overloaded. You might be able to find a F-450/550 4x2 reg cab with a gas engine for 10K that's really light when it's empty that might be close to being able to do it. Just remember a 20K trailer must be subtracted from the GCWR of the truck you're considering buying. If the GCWR is 26K, then 26K-20K is 6K. Meaning the truck must weight 6K!! That's unlikely.

I'd think $10K would be much better spent on a used IH, Ford, GMC, Freightliner chassis with a flatbed. To get into a combination that size, you'll need a CDL, since the combination is likely to exceed 26K and the trailer will definately exceed 10,001lbs.

 

[DUSTMAKER]

Thanks for the responses all. A little more information. The machine weighs 10,640 lbs without the bucket or operator. Trailer specs. are 2 x12k axles, 2K rated max tongue weight, 3,300 trailer weight. That would put me at max or a little over with tie downs and extra dirt on the machine. Local patrol gives a little fudge factor on overweight. Mostly concerned about overloading rear axle of truck with tongue weight and attachments. Builder, that is the response I was looking for, think I will look for a F450 in good enough condition.
Thank again for the responses.
Paul

 

[Builder]

Thanks for the responses all. A little more information. The machine weighs 10,640 lbs without the bucket or operator. Trailer specs. are 2 x12k axles, 2K rated max tongue weight, 3,300 trailer weight. That would put me at max or a little over with tie downs and extra dirt on the machine. Local patrol gives a little fudge factor on overweight. Mostly concerned about overloading rear axle of truck with tongue weight and attachments. Builder, that is the response I was looking for, think I will look for a F450 in good enough condition.
Thank again for the responses.
Paul

Paul,

Hold on. I was "assuming" a much heavier machine & trailer. I was thinking your loader & trailer would weigh 20K. Now that I know thew machine weighs ~10,700lbs and the trailer weighs ~3,300lbs, you could use a 14-16K GVWR trailer and be legal. An F-450 with a 26K GCWR or more (most are 26K) would be adequate since your combo would weigh under 25K assuming a 14K trailer & machine weight and a 10-11K truck weight (I figured the truck empty would weigh 8-9K and your cargo would weigh 4K).

Check my figures again, but I think if you found a used F-450 with a 26K GCWR, you should be OK. What's "killing" you here is the GCWR needing to be ~26K. That takes older DRW one tons out of the equation and puts you into an F-450 sized truck or bigger.

Stay under 26K GCWR and you won't need a CDL, even if the trailer is over 10,001 lbs. Might be able to find a 99-01 with a 7.3L in it......

I think your biggest obstacle is finding an F-450 for under $10,000 bucks.

 

[LoneCowboy]

1. CDL weights are not figured off actual weights, but rated weights. If you have a F350 rated at 9900lbs and a dually 20k trailer rated at 20,000lbs, you are at 29,900, you need a CDL (less some rules, farmers, etc, but typically no). EVEN IF IT'S EMPTY.

2. a 7 or 8 ton gooseneck trailer (14k, 16k) typically weighs 4500 to 5000lbs empty. 11,000lbs of weight is over. Trust me, I've hauled 12,000lbs on a 7 ton trailer, it's clearly too much for the trailer. A dually gooseneck (20+5, 2 10k axles) typically weighs 7000 to 8000lbs empty.

 

[Builder]

1. CDL weights are not figured off actual weights, but rated weights. If you have a F350 rated at 9900lbs and a dually 20k trailer rated at 20,000lbs, you are at 29,900, you need a CDL (less some rules, farmers, etc, but typically no). EVEN IF IT'S EMPTY.

Absolutely correct. I've seen a couple of times where local kids went out and bought 20K dual tandem gooseneck trailers so they could play trucker only to find they had to sell them becuase they required a CDL to be pulled behind the 45,000 diesel truck mommy & daddy bought them.