I bought a YM1510 diesel about 3 weeks ago. Seller started it for me to pull it up onto my trailer with no problem other than needing a jump. It needed a freeze plug which I have taken care of already and filled the coolant. Now I can not get this thing started. I did get it started one time and after running for about 30 seconds shut it down when the exhaust started spewing out a dark thin fluid, which I was later told was just condensation built up from sitting. I have replaced the battery (it was getting weak) and I also replaced the starter because it was in bad shape though still functional. That being said, the tractor cranks but will not start. I also bleed the system although I don't think it needed it. I am now at a loss as to where to go next. The manual doesn't help much and even when the temp got up to nearly 60 degrees the other day it still would not turn over. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. I am losing patience about to sell it and buy something already in running condition! Thanks for any help!
YM1510 No Start Problem *HELP!*
- Thread starter coop1086
- Start date
- Views: 4576
Was the spewing fluid actually coolant coming through because the freeze plug issue was actually more serious? The other possibilities include bad glow plugs, low compression and contaminated fuel.
One way that always works for my buddies is to tow the tractor with a truck and a chain to produce a high motor rpm. This will heat up the charge enough to fire most any fuel mixtures as long as juice is getting through. It should at least be puffing white smoke. (unburned Diesel vapor). The black spit usually comes from parking it outside during a rain storm. That's too much water (IMHO) to be just from condensation... If it was parked a long time, the rings could be dry and thus are sealing poorly.
Roll it down a hill or tow it for a 1/4 mile to warm it up.
One way that always works for my buddies is to tow the tractor with a truck and a chain to produce a high motor rpm. This will heat up the charge enough to fire most any fuel mixtures as long as juice is getting through. It should at least be puffing white smoke. (unburned Diesel vapor). The black spit usually comes from parking it outside during a rain storm. That's too much water (IMHO) to be just from condensation... If it was parked a long time, the rings could be dry and thus are sealing poorly.
Roll it down a hill or tow it for a 1/4 mile to warm it up.
HoyeTractor
Gold Member, Approved Advertiser
Was the tractor already warmed up when he started it for you? This is a common practice- start the tractor before the customer get there (often with ether) & then shut it off when you pull up. The tractor will be warm & start easily. Then when you get home it will have cooled down & will need ether again to start. Ether will cause SERIOUS problems though - don't use it!
If it was not already warm- How long did he run it with no water when he was loading it for you? If you have zero water in the engine (ie-freeze plug out) it won't take long for the engine to overheat. That can cause problems that will prevent it from starting again.
Do you know why the freeze plug was out of it?
Aaron
Parts@HoyeTractor.com
(940)592-0181
If it was not already warm- How long did he run it with no water when he was loading it for you? If you have zero water in the engine (ie-freeze plug out) it won't take long for the engine to overheat. That can cause problems that will prevent it from starting again.
Do you know why the freeze plug was out of it?
Aaron
Parts@HoyeTractor.com
(940)592-0181
Willl
Elite Member
yes, i did get plenty of white smoke. i thought about the ether thing but the more i read about using it with a diesel motor the more i didn't want to even try it. it does get fuel for sure. i primed it with the lines off and easily saw the fuel coming through the filter and out of the lines. i am not sure if the seller warmed it up or not, may have been the case as i had him start it for me since i am not really familiar with starting these types of diesel tractor motors or tractors in general. as far as the power shift transmission, i am not sure what exactly that is. it is not hydrostatic but geared....is that what you are referring to? i really appreciate all the replies already! i am by no means a mechanic but not afraid to get my hands dirty and somewhat handy. i am just not a big fan of diesel since i don't fully understand the mechanics of how they work. i don't want to drop it off at a dealer and have them stick it to me. if you have any more input please don't hesitate to make any suggestions. thanks again!
oh yeah, forgot to comment on something. the tractor had blown out the freeze plug once before according to the seller and he had all three replaced. once again one of them blew some time later. he then inheritted a new tractor from family and sold this one as is. i have a pretty good feeling there are no internal issues with the motor since it ran for him when he drove it onto the trailer (not long enough to open the thermostat) which was a very short period of time. i also had it start here and it sounded good. we had both filled the antifreeze up prior to the two starts so it should not have been enough to cause a problem.
a quick Diesel Engine Basics, they ignite the fuel by heat buildup from compression pressure. (at least 400 psi plus) so even 60 degrees is still kinda cold, also all the steel will take a good while to warm up from a cold night.
glow plugs are a plus if you have them (i do not), let them warm up a couple of minutes before cranking.
it is ashame you did not install a electric freeze plug block heater while it was out. here in the deep south i wish i had one, i'm using a magnetic heater on mine because i have not yet seen a freeze plug on the block. it is necessary for me to warm up the block if it goes below 60 degrees at night. 32 degrees last night and i let the heater do its thing for at least 2 hours or longer. i place the heater right below the head gasket opposite side of exhaust.
Good Luck
i'm hoping that warming the block will solve your problem.
Edit: this link might have the correct size Freeze Plug Heater, dunno ???
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/752718/1...block+heater&gclid=CKy1gIW_5pYCFQpjnAodN0vvQg
glow plugs are a plus if you have them (i do not), let them warm up a couple of minutes before cranking.
it is ashame you did not install a electric freeze plug block heater while it was out. here in the deep south i wish i had one, i'm using a magnetic heater on mine because i have not yet seen a freeze plug on the block. it is necessary for me to warm up the block if it goes below 60 degrees at night. 32 degrees last night and i let the heater do its thing for at least 2 hours or longer. i place the heater right below the head gasket opposite side of exhaust.
Good Luck
i'm hoping that warming the block will solve your problem.
Edit: this link might have the correct size Freeze Plug Heater, dunno ???
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/752718/1...block+heater&gclid=CKy1gIW_5pYCFQpjnAodN0vvQg
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Get a reliable friend with a truck and a 12' tow strap. Run the truck towing system (with the tractor attached at the center of the front axle) at about 5 mph, clutch in (disengaged). Shove it in a low gear (not reverse), and when you are straight and tight, let the clutch out slowly to rev the tractor motor. It may take a few yards to clear the fuel, raise the oil pressure, coat the rings and settle the operator but it will soon fire. Probably only 1 cylinder at a time but it will fire. Watch out for more belching black smoke. Wear your safety glasses. Be prepared to shove the clutch back in and arrange for signals to your friend to stop without hitting him when it starts. But it will start. Make sure all the key, safety, fuel valves and brakes are working. YOU stop the truck & tractor or else you will hit them in the back. And don't run over the tow strap.
Then tell us how easy (or hard) it was to do this.
Then tell us how easy (or hard) it was to do this.
kenmac
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my question would have been .. why were the freeze plugs blown out ?? The answer probably would have been no antifreeze ! Probably also has a cracked head. Just because the freeze plug / plugs blew, doesn't mean all is well. probably too late for a refund
dieselfuelonly
Gold Member
Have you bled the fuel system all the way to the injectors, as in cracked the injector lines and cranked until some fuel starts coming through them?
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
I have a 1510 D and want you to know that these are GREAT little tractors. The powershift trans is tops and if you get this problem sorted out you will absolutely love the thing.
Now to the problem. You cannot tow a powershift as it relies on hyd oil pressure to engage the clutch packs in the tranny.
My starting regime is thus: I open the throttle a bit (I aim for 1500 rpm) and turn the key to the left to engage the thermostart, depending on temp I hold it for maybe 30 sec., then I pull the compression release (pull handle on left under steering wheel) [this opens the exhaust valves slightly to release all compression], now turn the key to the right to crank the engine (it will spin freely for 10-15 seconds, and then I release the compression handle. It instantly starts to fire and in a couple of seconds she smooths out.
The black liquid (water and soot) and freeze plug would bother me a whole lot. If it were condensation then it should have blown it out when he started it to run it up on the trailer. Therefore, I would suspect that it is coming from the engine. Take the exhaust manifold off and try starting it. Even before starting it you may be able to see if the water is coming from a cylinder. Be very careful as liquids are not compressible and you can damage an engine even more by cranking with water on the piston.
You have a great tractor. Even if it requires some work to get it going, you will find that it is worth it in the work that it can do. Best wishes for success.
Mike
Now to the problem. You cannot tow a powershift as it relies on hyd oil pressure to engage the clutch packs in the tranny.
My starting regime is thus: I open the throttle a bit (I aim for 1500 rpm) and turn the key to the left to engage the thermostart, depending on temp I hold it for maybe 30 sec., then I pull the compression release (pull handle on left under steering wheel) [this opens the exhaust valves slightly to release all compression], now turn the key to the right to crank the engine (it will spin freely for 10-15 seconds, and then I release the compression handle. It instantly starts to fire and in a couple of seconds she smooths out.
The black liquid (water and soot) and freeze plug would bother me a whole lot. If it were condensation then it should have blown it out when he started it to run it up on the trailer. Therefore, I would suspect that it is coming from the engine. Take the exhaust manifold off and try starting it. Even before starting it you may be able to see if the water is coming from a cylinder. Be very careful as liquids are not compressible and you can damage an engine even more by cranking with water on the piston.
You have a great tractor. Even if it requires some work to get it going, you will find that it is worth it in the work that it can do. Best wishes for success.
Mike
MJPeterson, thanks so much for the run through of the starting procedure. I appreciate it especially in "plain language"! I will give it a try some time this weekend and let you know how I make out. If that doesn't work I will order the block heater that I have been contimplating since they are not all that expensive. Just to make sure I have it correct, you are saying to crank it with the compression release pulled out and after a bit to release it as I am still cranking the motor? I have not tried that yet but it does leave me some hope as well as your quoted verse from Solomon! I will keep you posted and many thanks again.
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
Yes: crank it while the clutch is pushed in with the compression pulled out and after it spins up a bit, let the compression return and it should start.
Mike
Mike
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coop1086, if you suspect water in the cylinders, it is important that any cranking begin with the compression relieved - ie use the compression release. This allows any water to blow out of the cylinders. Cranking and hitting incompressible water could easily crack the rings or worse.
MJ, could you tow-start a powershift if you start out in an upper gear and using the compression release? I would think this would allow the engine to turn and provide the hydraulic pressure needed to engage the transmission while the tow vehicle gets rolling. I don't have any experience with this; I'm simply curious.
MJ, could you tow-start a powershift if you start out in an upper gear and using the compression release? I would think this would allow the engine to turn and provide the hydraulic pressure needed to engage the transmission while the tow vehicle gets rolling. I don't have any experience with this; I'm simply curious.
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
I do not know. Never had an occasion to try. Logically you could not, because without the clutches engaging you cannot turn the engine through the tranny and you need the engine turning to get the hyd pump in the tranny to build pressure. It is separate from the system hyd pump. Your gear shift only moves a hyd valve, I believe, and without hyd flow, you have nothing.
Coop, You are sure that you have clean fuel and not a load of water mixed in with the fuel? Did you refuel it since he started it and loaded it? I have had a couple of experiences where I ended up with a sheepish look when I finally realized that I had a load of water instead of fuel.
Mike
MJ, I did not check the fuel for water prior to filling the tank. It was low so when I was in the process of towing it back on my trailer I stopped at the gas station and filled both the tank (less than 1/4 of tank in tractor at time of filling) and the fuel can with diesel fuel. Now the tank is full and would be some task to empty. I guess if that may be a possibility that it may have water in it then I will have to find a way to drain it. Yesterday I did try the starting procedure you spelled out for me and had no luck. I think at this point I may consider selling it for parts or as a whole and move on to something needing less work. I also realized this tractor will need a radiator as it has a leak near the top hose bib. I have a motorcycle I am going to sell also and put the cash from that and whatever I get for the tractor together to buy something a little more reliable. Thanks for the help and I will be sure to keep you posted. Any suggestions on what a fair price would be for the tractor would be appreciated. It has a new starter, new battery, new three point hitch kit parts, and is in overall good shape other than the no start issue I am having.
MJPetersen
Veteran Member
Coop,
Where are you? Maybe there is someone in the area that can help you get going in the right direction. These engines are not that complicated, if you understand some basics.
I understand the frustration and the desire to just be done with it-and move on. It is your decision of course, but I wish that I could be near you to help you out.
There is one trick that may help you get it going. I used it with an old van that was hard to start when cold. Take a hair blowdryer, disconnect the tube going to the intake manifold, use the air dryer to warm up the manifold a bit, and then pull the compression lever, crank the engine while directing the warm hair dryer air into the intake. When it is spinning nicely, drop the compression release. With the combination of warm air, fast spinning with clutch in, neutral on shift, and 1/2 throttle it should fire up. When it starts replace the intake hose. You do not want to suck any debris into it.
You should be able to see if there is water in it from the clear fuel filter bowl on the right hand side by the rear of the engine.
Best wishes.
Mike
Where are you? Maybe there is someone in the area that can help you get going in the right direction. These engines are not that complicated, if you understand some basics.
I understand the frustration and the desire to just be done with it-and move on. It is your decision of course, but I wish that I could be near you to help you out.
There is one trick that may help you get it going. I used it with an old van that was hard to start when cold. Take a hair blowdryer, disconnect the tube going to the intake manifold, use the air dryer to warm up the manifold a bit, and then pull the compression lever, crank the engine while directing the warm hair dryer air into the intake. When it is spinning nicely, drop the compression release. With the combination of warm air, fast spinning with clutch in, neutral on shift, and 1/2 throttle it should fire up. When it starts replace the intake hose. You do not want to suck any debris into it.
You should be able to see if there is water in it from the clear fuel filter bowl on the right hand side by the rear of the engine.
Best wishes.
Mike
another 1510 owner signing in....
I think you CAN tow start the powershift gearbox.... use the starter to spin the engine over whilst in gear - and compression release lever pulled - ie driving it on the starter motor. Then the hydraulics are in place to drive the engine....
1) have you bled the fuel right the way through?:-
a- fuel to filter (10mm spanner / phillps head screw on left of filter) open it till it leaks fuel
b) filter filled - screw on right of filter.
c) filter to pump - screw on banjo bolt at end of pipe as it enters pump on right side at front of engine, awkward to get to. Tank must be full to get fuel out of this one easily.
d) pump to injector - 17mm spanner needed - crack (release, dont undo completely) the 17mm nut which holds the pipe into the injector itself. Crank engine until all three spurt fuel out.
2) warm fuel - which is clean. Remove ALL fuel from tank and stick in a bottle somewhere else. I had some fuel that worked fine in my 2006 renault engined Nissan Frontier (navara) diesel 2.5 turbo / common rail super dooper engine - but didnt work in the Yannie.
3) is the cold start working? It relies on the little plastic bowl of fuel you can see (2" diameter near the cylinder head) dribbling fuel into the inlet manifold. Check it has some fuel in it - try filling with diesel if it isnt.
4) spinning fast enough? try jumping it?
5) is there good compression? there should be a significant labouring of the starter motor if you crank it without pulling the decompressor first - ie wirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr vs wrr wrr wrr wrr wrr
I think you CAN tow start the powershift gearbox.... use the starter to spin the engine over whilst in gear - and compression release lever pulled - ie driving it on the starter motor. Then the hydraulics are in place to drive the engine....
1) have you bled the fuel right the way through?:-
a- fuel to filter (10mm spanner / phillps head screw on left of filter) open it till it leaks fuel
b) filter filled - screw on right of filter.
c) filter to pump - screw on banjo bolt at end of pipe as it enters pump on right side at front of engine, awkward to get to. Tank must be full to get fuel out of this one easily.
d) pump to injector - 17mm spanner needed - crack (release, dont undo completely) the 17mm nut which holds the pipe into the injector itself. Crank engine until all three spurt fuel out.
2) warm fuel - which is clean. Remove ALL fuel from tank and stick in a bottle somewhere else. I had some fuel that worked fine in my 2006 renault engined Nissan Frontier (navara) diesel 2.5 turbo / common rail super dooper engine - but didnt work in the Yannie.
3) is the cold start working? It relies on the little plastic bowl of fuel you can see (2" diameter near the cylinder head) dribbling fuel into the inlet manifold. Check it has some fuel in it - try filling with diesel if it isnt.
4) spinning fast enough? try jumping it?
5) is there good compression? there should be a significant labouring of the starter motor if you crank it without pulling the decompressor first - ie wirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr vs wrr wrr wrr wrr wrr
KubotaSam
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The small round plugs on the side of an engine which we all call "freeze plugs" are actually "core plugs" The are there to hold the core (the part that makes the cooling cavity) in the casting process when the block is cast in the foundry. While the do pop out when the block freezes they are not there to prevent the block from cracking. It is my guess the block is cracked and it will not start due to low compression.
