Oil & Fuel YM1610D spittin oil

[E_Sanborn]

Hi there, newbie tractor owner here - got aYM 1610D w/FEL from RCO Tractor in Austin TX (just down the road) a few months back. Tractor had 922 hrs, have put on 60 or so hours since.

General Notes: The guys at RCO seem to be genuinely good guys, and I love the Yanmar. I had read up on them for some time - here @ TBN - prior to buying.

I've had the tractor for few months now, and have been very pleased with it's capabilities. When I recieved the tractor, I changed out all of the fluids to better familarize myself with the internals, and to put in place my preffered synthetics in the F Axle, Tranny, and engine.

I have just one problem previously, and it didn't seem serious. Of course, it was with the charging system - oddly enough, the problem appears to be that the sensor circuit in the VReg is turning on the ALT light even though straight and rectified voltage is OK - within limits. It seems to signal, in fact, that the V or Current is "too high", by it's behaviour. But that's not a serious problem, and the charging system seems to work fine.

What I am having a problem with is the oil that is being sprayed onto the hood and myself by the exaust. Appears to be about 1 teaspoon of oil after several hours of operation (temps: 90-102F, oil Redline 15-40 diesel synth)


I contacted RCO, and we're making arrangements to bring it in - just barely still under warranty.

Want to sound out the board to make sure I'm not being an Idiot or overlooking the obvious. Searched for similar subjects already, Here's what I know:

1) Oil Level OK, when tractor level.

2) Oil type OK, was 15-40 Diesel Synth, changed to 20-50 Synth, same prob.

3) Removed and verified Crankcase breather free of obstructions all the way to valve cover.

4) Operating RPM OK. Conservative with equipment, typically run 1800-2100

5) problem is most pronounced at 2000-2400 RPM

6) Hotter than **** weather.

7) "Historically" - odd spot of oil here and there on hood both with original (dino 30W?) oil. as well as after first oil change to 15-40 Redline Synthetic Diesel oil.

8) This past week or so is the first time I've used the YM hard in HOT weather. The oil shower on the hood was apparent after a 6 hour day in the saddle -much of it in near 100 degree temps with the YM operating at 2000-2400 RMP much of the time.

9) Engine power OK, Coolant level OK, temp range Normal +/- 1/16" of the midpoint on dial once warmed up.

10) Exaust Smoke - not the quantity and color of smoke I'd expect form a diesel with oil rings leaking, but I am not a diesel expert. There is some smoke upon acceleration, and more under load. Generally a bluish/whitish smoke, not clouds of it, but significant amounts of smoke.

11) Difficult to assess oil consumption - some but not a large amount.

I'm taking it up with RCO - but does this look like valve seals or oil rings? Or??Thanks in advance, Edward

 

[BTackett]

Edward, is the oil spraying from the exhuast manifold area? Does it do it more at upper 2400 rpm range? Are you sure the oil that came out of it previously was synthetic?

I never run my YM1700 above about 2000/2100 rpms as I have no need to. My expereience with synthetic oils are the they have smaller micron particles and lubricate the engine better due to getting into tighter spaces than regular viscosity oils. A downfall to synthetics is that if you have an worn engine that has been ran its previous life of 900 hrs (if really accurate) on regular motor oil and then switch to synthetics that the engine will leak the synthetic as different areas and some blowby on the rings and out the exhaust due to wear/tolerances. This seems to be what you are describing that is coming from the exhaust gasket? My hour gauge shows about 600 hrs but I know that cannot be 100% accurate/true and not really worried about it. If switching to synthetic oils , it needs to be done probably at the first oil change at 50 or 100 hrs. Cars/trucks used to recommend about 10k miles before switching and now a lot of GM cars come factory with synthetic already in them.

I would take the synth oil/filter out and put regular 15/40 oil in it and run for about 30 minutes and change again oil/filter and then see if the blowby stops. If it does then problem solved and the synthetic smaller particles were getting by the worn rings/cylinders causing the spitting.

I am not a mechanic or engineer by far but have experienced this with commercial mowers and two trucks. Went back to regular motor oil and problem solved.

just my .02

Bill

 

[FL_Jerry]

Could be your valve stem seals which are quite easy to get to and replace. Bad ones allow oil to travel down the stems and sit on top of the valve heads till they open.

Also, if water (condensation included) gets into the muffler, it mixes with the soot and gets blown out when you run it(slobber). You are sure the engine is loosing crank oil so this could only be part of it. If the crank oil is going down then it's not likely it is unburned fuel.

You can take the manifold off to see if you can tell which cyl it is coming from as well. I haven't had much luck with this method myself but one never knows

On the other hand, if it is under Warranty, I'd let them go through it and fix it and not worry. If they say it is just slobber(the water mix thing), make sure to point out you are loosing crank oil.

Jerry

 

[roxynoodle]

Perhaps a stupid question, but is your tractor outside where rain can get into the exhaust?

 

[E_Sanborn]

Thanks for the ideas, guys. I should have specified in my original posting that the tractor is kept in a barn, and has never had more than a few drops of rain on it.
Honestly, I can't say for sure it is loosing oil. I think it is - slightly lower position on the dipstick, but flat areas out here are scarce, so I have to point her downhill, and then use a level and the FEL to "find" level. Therefore, I think it is - but not a lot, as in a quart low..

 

[E_Sanborn]

Edward, is the oil spraying from the exhuast manifold area? Does it do it more at upper 2400 rpm range? Are you sure the oil that came out of it previously was synthetic?

Bob, Thank you for your ideas.

The oil's coming out from the tail end of the muffler. There's quite a bit on the flapper and running down the pipe. From the tail end it splatters here and there on the hood, and on me. It's not a large volume of oil, not more than a teaspoon of oil, but perhaps 50+ tiny droplets (pinhead size) and a few "regular" drops on the hood.

It is definately more pronounced with higher rpm operation. It appears to start to happen around 2000/2100+. I typically run 18-2000 RPM on light chores, or just driving. When moving large buckets of dirt and rock, scraping and digging out large piles, the tractor needs the 2000+ RPM powerband. When working heavy loads I typically use 2000-2200 PRM, and occasionally 2400. My manual specified working RPM of 1800-2550 RPM.

I am sure the oil that came out of it previously was NOT synthetic. I'd bet it never seen any in it's prior life. I have read about the "seal shrinkage" problem with "old" motors changed over to synthetic, due to the different chemical composition of the dino vs. synth, but all the major oil manufacturers have indicated that this was a "problem of the past" and that current synth oil had additives to prevent this from being a problem. I do understand that you may expereince more blow-by than you would like, but I am willing to have that problem if it's not excessive, due to the superior qualities of synth oil.

I have been using synth oil for two decades exclusively in my small collection of vehicules, even on "small" engines, and have not encountered the seal swell/shrink problem before. Some vehicules I've converted over after buying used.

I suppose it's possible this is the issue and needs to be evaluated - espically with respect to your first-hand experience on commercial motors. When I suspected this might be an issue my first step was to change to a heavier, different mfg synth oil. I will dump the synth oil out and use a dino oil - your recommendation to run for 30 minutes and then change again with new dino oil? What's the reason for that?

Edward

 

[E_Sanborn]

Could be your valve stem seals which are quite easy to get to and replace. Bad ones allow oil to travel down the stems and sit on top of the valve heads till they open.

Also, if water (condensation included) gets into the muffler, it mixes with the soot and gets blown out when you run it(slobber). You are sure the engine is loosing crank oil so this could only be part of it. If the crank oil is going down then it's not likely it is unburned fuel.

You can take the manifold off to see if you can tell which cyl it is coming from as well. I haven't had much luck with this method myself but one never knows

On the other hand, if it is under Warranty, I'd let them go through it and fix it and not worry. If they say it is just slobber(the water mix thing), make sure to point out you are loosing crank oil.

Jerry

Jerry, I may be checking into these factors myself as the good people at RCO Tractor apparently have a mechanic only on weekends, and it's not clear to me that warranty service is a priority for them...

 

[kenmac]

and it's not clear to me that warranty service is a priority for them...

It should be. That's what keeps customers comming through the door

 

[rhett]

hi E_Sanborn,

I too experience white smoke and oil coming out of the exhaust. Just like you it has not been bad enough to tear down my engine to find the cause and do a minor overhaul. I'm waiting for the grass to stop growing first.

Now the reason for this post, I still need more seat time to confirm this. But here goes anyway.

I added 1/2 a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil to the crankcase, and have been adding 2 ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil per gallon of Diesel Fuel. So far I have only run through about 5 gallons of Diesel Fuel treated, and the crankcase oil treated. It does seem that it is helping recondition the seals, plus adding some top of cylinder lubrication.

Later this week when the grass needs re cutting, 6 hours plus seat time, I will be able to report more definitive results. As for the little running from moving dirt and cleaning around after the last cut, it does seem to be helping. So my problem just may be the Valve Stem Seals just needed the softening and swelling some additives do/will provide. ? I need more time to confirm, but heck, it is worth the try!

LOL, my Honda Accord does this real bad at startup when it gets cold. If this works, it will get the treatment too.

Rhett

 

[roxynoodle]

Rhett, what is Marvel Mystery Oil? Would you recommend others use it on our rather old Yanmars even if we aren't having any blow by? Where do you get it? Thanks!