Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear

   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #1  

wrenchturner

Silver Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
171
I have read many articles about the reduction of zinc phosphate in engines causing camshaft wear. I experienced this in my 1978 big block chevy truck I use. After rebuilding the engine due to camshaft lobe wear, the second new cam lasted only several thousand miles before more exhaust lobes wore down. I thought this article in Circle Track magazine would be of interest to some readers.

Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #2  
Hiya,

I always wondered what was behind a series of bad cams I had in the early 90's. I was running big FE Fords in Mustang and Fairlane chassis. One particular engine comes to mind. It was a 470 inch stroker 427 MR with a flat tappet comp cam 305 HE grind. I must have gone through 3 or 4 cams before I finally gave up and went with roller tappets for all my engines.

Good to know it wasn't my engine skills.... :D

Tom
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #3  
I was running big FE Fords in Mustang and Fairlane chassis. One particular engine comes to mind. It was a 470 inch stroker 427 MR with a flat tappet comp cam 305 HE grind.
:) Oh yeah!!! Much of my mis-spent youth involved Blue Ovals in various configurations. :)
Boy, if I'd just bought an acre of property with each engine component's worth of $$$$ I spent back in the 70's/80's, I'd be able to have a subordinate review the forums and respond while I cruised the South Seas on my yacht :rolleyes:

In any event, that ZDDP issue is a real hot-button topic at every forum involving internal combustion, it seems.

Very interesting article wrenchturner.
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #4  
I need a little help on this. I have read a lot of confusing stuff on this and am going backwards in thought. Even the Mobil One sight confused me.
The question is: I bought a GM new complete engine in 1987 (350-290HP) for a homebuilt car. Engine has flat hydraulic lifters.

Does anyone know if modern Mobil One oil is OK or not?
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #5  
What does zinc phosphate have to do with cams wearing out? All it is is that black/dark gray coating they put on most of the parts inside the engine before they are machined. It helps keep stuff from rusting while it's going through the various machining steps. It's actually not even zinc phosphate anymore. Hasn't been since the 50's with most companies unless they like doing more work than necessary. It's usually Manganese phosphate nowdays.

I do this process on guns mostly but also quite a bit on my own engine parts and for a few custom engine builders around the country. Manganese, or Zinc phosphate coatings on parts like connecting rods and cam shafts also helps the parts to hold oil and run a bit cooler. The coating is porous and soaks up and holds oil a ton better than a bare steel part. That's why it's been the standard military gun coating since the M-1 Garand in the late 30's and has been the standard for refinishing all steel rifles and pistols since the 40's. Just a small amount of oil is all it takes to soak in and provide protection for a long time with coatings like this.

I was just curious about the title of this thread is all.

Nevermind, I just read that article. That stuff is different. What I said still applies though if you all want your engines to run a little cooler.

Anyway, I had a rash of bad cams back in the mid 90's myself. It really ticked me off too when that company tried blaming it on me for two of them. It was in a crate engine that came fully set up internally and pretty much ready to run. In fact I remember the instructions saying specifically not to adjust the lifters until after a certain number of miles that it never even made it to. I finally talked them into sending me another engine and on that one it locked up solid after less than two hours of running. They forgot to put the piston pin clips on the back two pistons! I never bought another crate motor again after that. I had at least 5 cams go bad on me in the first year of service back in those days too. All from the same company also. If anyone else had offered that particular grind at the time I would have used them but noone did back then. It doesn't surprise me that changing the properties of the oil might have had something to do with it.
Try finding the proper oil for a powerstroke diesel these days. One with the anti foam additive they require. Mobil-1 did have it but not anymore. I'm stuck with Rotella synthetic now but I really prefer the Mobil-1. I've run one engine over a million miles on that stuff already and am hooked.
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #6  
What does zinc phosphate have to do with cams wearing out
I think he meant dithiophosphate. ;)

How about Motorcraft 5-40 or 15-40 for your P.S.? My brother has been running their 15-40 in his 6.0 P.S., and it's over 150K with no problems so far.

Are you at the Ford Truck Ford Truck Enthusiasts, 1948-2009 Ford F150, Super Duty & SUV owners community and information source. Covers F100, F-150, F250, Bronco, Ranger, Explorer, Expedition, Lighting, Escape and More forum? They have a couple P.S. sections.
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #7  
I have read many articles about the reduction of zinc phosphate in engines causing camshaft wear. I experienced this in my 1978 big block chevy truck I use. After rebuilding the engine due to camshaft lobe wear, the second new cam lasted only several thousand miles before more exhaust lobes wore down. I thought this article in Circle Track magazine would be of interest to some readers.

Engine Lubricants - Solving The Flat-Tappet Puzzle - Circle Track Magazine


Owned a alcohol drag car until about 2 yrs ago.Anyone that has every run on alcohol knows that you get enough moisture in an engine that, it turns white inside oil & all. I Never had any oil related cam wear out problems. Could be ,someone is getting a bad batch of china metal
 
   / Zinc Phosphate and Cam Wear #8  
Years ago...GF ( then) ( wife now) and I did hardness checks on a camshaft that came from some hot factory Corvette that had a "bad cam". ( This guy was the bosses boss..so I was glad to help out!!..:D

Wife was and is a metallurgist and we did hardness checks on each lobe in 4 different locations each. One lobe didnt even look like a lobe...looked more like a lobe from a roller cam except a lot shorter. ( Dont remember if this corvette had solid tappets or hyd tappets??) The hardness checks were all over the scale..definately a lousy made camshaft! Boss got in touch with GM and they did the rebuild on his corvette for a freebie since he had info on that cam.

The big boss took me to his tailor and I got a top notch suit custom tailored ( I had to pay for the suit of course..:D ) and when the GF ( then) wanted to go to a real jazzy place on a date..I got to use the big bosses lipstick red cadillic convertible with white top and white interior...:D

From what I understand from the wife..it doesnt make much of a change at all in the processing to go from a proper "hardness" cam lobe to a real POS
 

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