ok where to start... i baled @70 bales today hand tied the right side about 80 % of the time it seems like its tying fine but something in the either the wiper arm or the bill hook isnt letting it go? i found if after it ties i can push the string to the right to dislodge it. but if i just pull the string out it unties the bottom knot. i have some pics but my cat's got in a fight and knocked my computer off the table and killed it. so im using my kids netbook and havent figgered out how to resize yet...no wait i figgered it out!!!
jd 214t baler
- Thread starter donais
- Start date
Barry Bowen
Gold Member
Have adjusted the wiper, and sharpened the twine knife on the right knotter???
Barry Bowen
Gold Member
Your adjustment of the needle to the twine disc looks right on.
On the end of the wiper that goes into the cam, there is a ball on the end that actually comes in contact with the cam. If that ball is there, you pretty much have all the movement you are going to have. If it is missing, this could be part of problem. Wiper would not return far enough, and would not move far enough when wiping. If that is missing, you may need to replace wiper, or replace the ball. I have never had to do this on any of the balers I have ever worked on, but it is possible this could be the problem
If this comes through. this is a link to JD parts page of the type of knotter you have. It is actually out of the 224t book, but will show the ball I am talking about on the top end of the wiper that goes into the big cam.
Error java.lang.NullPointerException
Says error, but when I just clicked it to check it, the page came right up. Try it anyway and see if it does for you also.
No mater how sloppy one of these is, I have never seen it stop a knotter from working. If the knots on that right side are still hanging up, I am still looking at how tight the wiper is. Until it takes a pull of about 10-15 pounds, they are not tight enough. The twine you have in there looks good for what you are doing. I like the length of the little shreads that are falling out of the left knotter. I do not see any for the right knotter?????
Did you remove the flat springs for the twine disc tension, to make sure that they are not stuck together? Maybe even loosen that right side up a little more. You can all ways tighten back up if needed. Also look at that right twine disc and make sure it is turning properly. Judging by the top right picture from 4-29, that is the classic look of the twine not being cut properly. If the knife is not sharp, it puts a hard pull on the twine and can really tighten it up around the bill hook.
Minor point, not the problem here I don't think, but tucker finger adjustments. They should almost touch the needle as they start moving across the face of the needle. Spacing becomes more critical as you crank more hay through the baler. This adjustment though is not causing the knots to hang on the bill hook. Two main things do that, wiper adjustment, and knife sharpness. Make sure you are 100% on these items, and the ball is on the cam end of the wiper, before you even think about doing anything else with the wiper travel.
Let me know what you find. When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras. Not enough wiper travel can be a real zebra answer. We need to eliminate at the horse answers first.
On the end of the wiper that goes into the cam, there is a ball on the end that actually comes in contact with the cam. If that ball is there, you pretty much have all the movement you are going to have. If it is missing, this could be part of problem. Wiper would not return far enough, and would not move far enough when wiping. If that is missing, you may need to replace wiper, or replace the ball. I have never had to do this on any of the balers I have ever worked on, but it is possible this could be the problem
If this comes through. this is a link to JD parts page of the type of knotter you have. It is actually out of the 224t book, but will show the ball I am talking about on the top end of the wiper that goes into the big cam.
Error java.lang.NullPointerException
Says error, but when I just clicked it to check it, the page came right up. Try it anyway and see if it does for you also.
No mater how sloppy one of these is, I have never seen it stop a knotter from working. If the knots on that right side are still hanging up, I am still looking at how tight the wiper is. Until it takes a pull of about 10-15 pounds, they are not tight enough. The twine you have in there looks good for what you are doing. I like the length of the little shreads that are falling out of the left knotter. I do not see any for the right knotter?????
Did you remove the flat springs for the twine disc tension, to make sure that they are not stuck together? Maybe even loosen that right side up a little more. You can all ways tighten back up if needed. Also look at that right twine disc and make sure it is turning properly. Judging by the top right picture from 4-29, that is the classic look of the twine not being cut properly. If the knife is not sharp, it puts a hard pull on the twine and can really tighten it up around the bill hook.
Minor point, not the problem here I don't think, but tucker finger adjustments. They should almost touch the needle as they start moving across the face of the needle. Spacing becomes more critical as you crank more hay through the baler. This adjustment though is not causing the knots to hang on the bill hook. Two main things do that, wiper adjustment, and knife sharpness. Make sure you are 100% on these items, and the ball is on the cam end of the wiper, before you even think about doing anything else with the wiper travel.
Let me know what you find. When you hear hoof beats, think horses not zebras. Not enough wiper travel can be a real zebra answer. We need to eliminate at the horse answers first.
the ball is there ill look into the wiper more i did take off the flat springs and wire wheeled them put some anti sieze and reinstalled, also today i took out the right hand side disk holder and twine disk. the gear on top has some play in it and the pin is real loose. any thoughts on that? i found some knives in the bucket of stuff the guy gave me i might put them on i do have the knife pretty sharp. here is some pics of the tucker finger when i adjusted it to the book the left stopped knotting i put it back to where it was and it started knotting again. I have started to get more to knot on the right side having them adjusted the way it is now...take a look and lemme know. and Barry thank you for spending so much time helping me with this i'm learning alot and still enjoying the learning, although my hands still hurt from tying all those bales!
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Barry Bowen
Gold Member
With out actually holding it to look at, that does not strick me as being anything majorly wrong there. It looks pretty good. The pictures you send of the twine hanging on the bill hook is classic, I say classic, loose wiper and or dull knife. While you have it out, clamp it in a vice and give the wiper a good hammer blow. Work it back in and see if tight enough or if it needs more. Personally I like to sharpen the knives with a file, but wear gloves in case you slip. Rough sharpen with good file, and finish with fine sand paper. If you replace then, I have bolted then on instead of rivets. The ones I have done, a 1/4-28 thread worked just right to tap into hole. Becarefull not to long on bolt to get in way else where. JD did go to bolting on when they got into the 336's. It will make sharpening later much easier also.
The actual twine disc should not be loose. The disc cleaner that fits into the twine disc is loose naturally. The tensioner that goes into disc on the spring side hangs loose when no twine, but tight when loaded. If loose, maybe during tying, it holds twine tooooo tight???maybe?? You may need to determine if the shaft, or the knotter frame is worn to determine where to go from here. The twine disc and gear should still be available, but lets make sure that is the problem before we spend money. Maybe try switching up the twine discs and gears and see what you get to see if it is the knotter frame being warn or what. For older balers like this, see if there is a grave yard some where in UPS range. I have been able to buy complete knotters this way for like 100. The twine disc and gear will likely cost this or more. Some times these old balers got parked, because the people working on them just could not get it perfect or even close to right, but we will keep trying.
As to the tucker fingers, if you had a spot that was working well, stay with it. Older models like this do not have the same exact adjustments that the 24t and new have where the tucker is on a plate and moves forward and back for adjustment to the needle face. When this gets more critical is when you are really packing the hay to it.
How heavy and long are your bales coming out. Ideal is about 36-42 inches, 12-16 strokes at around 3 inches or a little less, and 35-45 pounds for standard size. Is the 214t standard size or the larger small square, not sure? If larger small square, a little heavier. Really loose bales will create as many problems as really really tight ones. Your OM should have a chart in it for looking at knotter problems and what the actual knots can tell you is wrong. This can be very usefull. The twine coming out of the twine box should only take a very light pull, a few pounds at most. There is plenty of restriction in the rest of the way to the knotters to keep things tight.
I am still at classic, wiper loose, twin disc too tight, or dull knife from the last picture of the twine hanging on the bill hook.
The actual twine disc should not be loose. The disc cleaner that fits into the twine disc is loose naturally. The tensioner that goes into disc on the spring side hangs loose when no twine, but tight when loaded. If loose, maybe during tying, it holds twine tooooo tight???maybe?? You may need to determine if the shaft, or the knotter frame is worn to determine where to go from here. The twine disc and gear should still be available, but lets make sure that is the problem before we spend money. Maybe try switching up the twine discs and gears and see what you get to see if it is the knotter frame being warn or what. For older balers like this, see if there is a grave yard some where in UPS range. I have been able to buy complete knotters this way for like 100. The twine disc and gear will likely cost this or more. Some times these old balers got parked, because the people working on them just could not get it perfect or even close to right, but we will keep trying.
As to the tucker fingers, if you had a spot that was working well, stay with it. Older models like this do not have the same exact adjustments that the 24t and new have where the tucker is on a plate and moves forward and back for adjustment to the needle face. When this gets more critical is when you are really packing the hay to it.
How heavy and long are your bales coming out. Ideal is about 36-42 inches, 12-16 strokes at around 3 inches or a little less, and 35-45 pounds for standard size. Is the 214t standard size or the larger small square, not sure? If larger small square, a little heavier. Really loose bales will create as many problems as really really tight ones. Your OM should have a chart in it for looking at knotter problems and what the actual knots can tell you is wrong. This can be very usefull. The twine coming out of the twine box should only take a very light pull, a few pounds at most. There is plenty of restriction in the rest of the way to the knotters to keep things tight.
I am still at classic, wiper loose, twin disc too tight, or dull knife from the last picture of the twine hanging on the bill hook.
well today i was playing with the wiper and was cutting some twine with it then i tried it with the new knife and realized i guess i didnt get the old knives very sharp! ill put the new ones on and give it a whirl. Barry when you tapped it did you use hex head bolts or machine screws?
Barry Bowen
Gold Member
I used hex head 1/4-28 since it was a little smaller than 1/4 rivet. When JD did it, they used something small and metric as it takes an 8mm wrench. Since JD does it, I figured why couldn't I do it sort of the same way, but I do not own a metric tap and die set. So, I worked with what I have. Also when JD did this with the knives, they also did it with the wiper. Look up the knotters for say a 348 and you will see what I mean. I have not been able to figure out how to convert the old style wiper to the newer style with the adjustable wiper surface where you do not have to actually bend the wiper arm. Please let me know how it works out.