A rollover scraper with minimum

[MJPetersen]

Now that I have the big mounds of dirt cleared away on our church property with the scoop that I made, I need to smooth everything out for the parking area and lawn. The box blade seems to be the tool of choice for such tasks and I drew up some plans for a simple box blade.

However, in reading through the many box blade posts here in TBN I read about the Gannon rollover. The idea and versatility of such a box blade intrigued me. But when I researched them I found that they are HUGE! (35 in x 44 in) All of the models have the same roll over elements only the length of the blade is changed and the number of scarifiers. Obviously not suitable for a YM 1510D. (picture below)

From the specifications on the Woods web site I determined that the ratio between height and depth is about 80% so I drew up a plan for a rollover that is about 48 inches wide, 19 in high, and 24 inches deep. This is still probably a bit big for my tractor, but with the sand that we have here it might work.

I do not have any of the nicer tools that some of you have (I do not have a place for them if I had them and do not have the time for them if I had a place), so I thought that I would try to do this project to encourage others who like me have a minimum of tools. Welder <$100 buzz box, 4 in Dewalt angle grinder (cutting and shaping), and various other hand tools like drills and such.

So we will see how it goes. Any suggestions before it is too late?

In Warsaw,
Mike

 

[schmism]

with todays steel prices, your unlikely to be able to build something as heavy duty as you could buy for 2/3 the price.

add to that your new "learning to weld" welds on a box blade


not the project i would cut my teeth on.

 

[darkviper]

with todays steel prices, your unlikely to be able to build something as heavy duty as you could buy for 2/3 the price.

add to that your new "learning to weld" welds on a box blade


not the project i would cut my teeth on.

also to ad to the new welds thing. If you dont have any experieance in building a implement like this you will do one of 2 things. Make it way to heavy drasticaly adding to the price or to lite and it will be destroyed the first few times you use it. Not trying to discourage you but i am speaking from expereince doing it both ways. I have made things way to heavy and i have had them come to peices due to inexperinece in such matters. I am just recently getting to the point where i understand were to fortify stuff to take the pressure. Keeps us informed on how it goes. Live by my moto. "Be like Christopher Columbus and take a chance"

 

[HomeBrew2]

Looks like some folks missed Mr. Peterson's first project, showing that he knows what he's doing and has no access to wholegoods locally.
Excellent dirt scoop project

 

[MJPetersen]

Schmism,
I understand what you are saying about today's steel prices, but steel is not quite as expensive here as there I believe. There are very few tractors here in Poland that are under 20 hp and therefore, the implements that go with these tractors also are few. I think that there are plows, and mowers available, but not other ground engaging tools that are so common in the States.

As to my welding--who told you!!! Actually, I worked summers as a heavy equipment mechanic to put myself through college and grad school. So I have used the best of welders and the worst. I do not consider myself a welder, but I can weld--that is what the 4 inch grinder is for--to clean out the bird dodo so that I can weld it again!

Darkviper, Design is a hard thing that I have to continually remind myself that this implement does not have to withstand a D-8h just a 1510D yanmar--a bit of a difference. But I copy well. If you look at the dirt scoop that I made--Homebrew mentioned it--you will see a remarkable resemblance to the KK scoop. That is not an accident. I have studied the manual and pictures that I can find of the Gannon and think that I can scale it appropriately for my uses. I am not inventing I am imitating.

On that note--does anyone know how the scarifiers are retained on the Gannon? This is a puzzle for me. I have never seen one in real life, just pictures and that part seems not to have drawn the photographers attention.

Thanks,

Mike in Warsaw

 

[RichT]

Talk to a dealer that handles Gannon. Through a local dealer, Gannon built me a custom, Cat0, rollover scraper for my JD332 Diesel. I used it to maintain a horse arena, then adapted it to my Kubota BX22 (cat1). Pretty pricey but a very handy implement to have.

 

[MJPetersen]

RichT,

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the kind of thing I want. Thanks for posting that WOW--I will take all the pics, measurements, and specs that you have the patience and kindness to send to me. That is perfect.

It actually looks a bit small on the kubota.

How do they hold the scarifiers in?

Mike in Warsaw

 

[Renze]

Schmism,
I understand what you are saying about today's steel prices, but steel is not quite as expensive here as there I believe.

Mike in Warsaw

Mike, the steel prices dont vary more than 10% on a global basis, from Poland to the USA or China.
However they do differ more than 360% locally: when i buy at a farm equipment dealership close to my home, i once bought steel for 3.60
Though i could buy from the company i worked, for wholesale purchase price (plus 10% for use of the saw, and to cover the companies added cost for transport, stock and interest) which was near 1.00 at that time.

ooh great were the times i bought steel for 1 Dutch guilder per kilo... nowadays i buy it for nearly 1 Euro per kilo, which is 2.2 times as much....

 

[MJPetersen]

Renze,

That is interesting. I do know that there is a difference locally. I did not ask one time at a local building supply when I bought a piece of angle iron. ouch!!

Sometime I am going to have to go visit your lovely country. I have seen pictures but they do not do it justice I am sure.

I collected some pieces and started on my project today. So we will see how it goes.

Mike in Warsaw

 

[MJPetersen]

Ok guys,

I had the local metal yard cut the side plates for me and in a different yard I got the sheet (6 mm-- <1/4)that I will use for the blade. I will add to the blade a cutting edge, I have not decided yet whether that cutting edge will be welded on or bolted. I am leaning toward welding--It may not even be changed in my lifetime. I also picked up the main square profile that I will use for the draw beam (but they cut it 1200 mm when I asked for 1250 mm 2 inch difference).

Well I asked for 10mm (3/8) on the side plates and got 15mm (9/16) They would cut me new ones, but I decided that I would take the ones they cut for the price of the 10mm and just count it as extra weight--not sure it needs extra weight though! Additionally, what I did not know until I got home was that both plates were not exactly the same size. I ended up cutting 3/8 in off one plate so that they were close to the same size. I spent some time grinding the plates to smooth them up.

I did cheat a bit and stopped at a shop on the way home which has this huge old brake and bent the 6 mm sheet in 2 places at about 20 deg for the blade.

I welded the sides to the blade and saw cut the pivot holes in the sides. So it is now taking shape.

Mike in Warsaw

 

[mboulais]

Looks great so far. Keep those pictures coming.

 

[Renze]

Those drill bit hole saws, the guys in the welding shop use them all the time, but how cheap are they, and how expensive are good quality ones ???

 

[MJPetersen]

Renze,

I bought mine locally and it really was not too bad. The 24 mm saw was $5.50 Hitachi brand but the adapter was about $12. It is fine for standard steel, but you need a better saw for stainless or harder steel. The better saw is orange (sanvik brand??)and about $11.

You really should use a drill press to slow it down and keep it straight. I am using a 1/2 Milwakee hand drill that turns 600 and I am supposed to turn the saw at only 290-350. I take frequent breaks to add oil and let things cool. From what I have read if you are making a hole over 3/4 in (19mm) use a saw. My dirt scoop is the first that I ever used one. I used one because I could not find a drill bit 22mm (7/8 in). I like them and will use them more in the future.

Mike in Warsaw

 

[kwolfe]

I have only been working metal for a very short time. I have picked up some cutting oil because everyone says to. My question is, is the oil only to help cool the bit. Could you use a constant flow of cold water from a garden hose, or do you need to need to lubing properties of the oil as well?

 

[MJPetersen]

We better have 3RRL or Larry or some other of the machinists jump in here on that one Kwolfe. I use oil, because the bit lasts LOTS longer, you get a much smoother cut, and because I have always used oil. From high school metal shop I started using oil when cutting and have always used it. I do not normally have cutting oil, but I use atf or engine oil mixed with diesel. I know that some have their own little formulas for cutting and they use one kind for cutting this and another for cutting that. On the saws they say to use oil for drilling steel, but nothing for cast iron. I do not know why. Great question!

Mike

 

[MJPetersen]

OK the progress is that i bought a new piece of 100x100mm box 1290mm long for the main cross bar to which everything attaches. I made the side arms and welded them together with the short square cut pieces of pipe that goes on the side and the side arm for a pivot. I really need to get a drill press for those hole saw cuts.

The real Gannon has a brace from the front of the side pieces to the back blade, I did not want to do that. I believe that it is to keep the blade flexing from popping the pivots out of the socket on the side arms. I figured I would just bolt it together instead, but I put the pipe inside of pipe also. It is not a tight machined fit, but I think that with the whole it is good. I will trim the bolt off flush with the locking nut.

I set it up about level so the sides are even and welded the side arms to the main cross bar. Next is the 3 point connections

The consensus on Bob's survey of box blades was that captured drag links are preferred over just a pin, so i drilled the 4 holes necessary for the drag link connections and welded them on.

I think that it came out well. I will make the toplink connection next. I considered the style like is in RichT's pictures for the top link (it goes straight up from the main beam), but I think that instead I will use my original thought of a flat plate to made a tent to the top link pin. it is not sized nor welded in yet, just looking.

 

[Renze]

On the saws they say to use oil for drilling steel, but nothing for cast iron. I do not know why. Great question!

Mike

Cast iron contains a lot of graphite. The graphite works as a friction modifier. In the old days, they used cast iron pillow blocks as slide bearings. My technical handbook says that, for cast iron on mild steel sliding, a higher surface pressure is allowed than mild steel on mild steel.

thank you for your info on the hole saws... i need to get some, as i have a drill press with 12 speeds, slow enough for big hole saws. 11 $ is way less than i expected....
I think i need 22 and 28mm hole saws, corresponding to Cat.II three point linkage, to fit most of my farm fabrication needs.

 

[HomeBrew2]

I have only been working metal for a very short time. I have picked up some cutting oil because everyone says to. My question is, is the oil only to help cool the bit. Could you use a constant flow of cold water from a garden hose, or do you need to need to lubing properties of the oil as well?

One of the machinists would be the best for a good answer. I'll offer a quick version. If you have cutting oil, use it. If you have cutting fluid system, use that. Do not use cutting oil like cutting fluid. Cutting oil is to lube the cutting area BUT, the chips must be free to move away from the area as though they were dry. Cutting fluid does the same thing BUT the SYSTEM is designed to wash away the chips from the cutting area. Cutting oil used as cutting fluid is bad. Lube w/ oil as though it costs $1000/gal

 

[RichT]

RichT,

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the kind of thing I want. Thanks for posting that WOW--I will take all the pics, measurements, and specs that you have the patience and kindness to send to me. That is perfect.

It actually looks a bit small on the kubota.

How do they hold the scarifiers in?

Mike in Warsaw

Mike, looks like you're making good progress on a Gannon replica. It is a bit small for the bota, but will cover the tire tracks except for a hard turn. The teeth are secured by a bar which slides through the square tube, through notches in the tooth stems, and pinned on both ends.

My Gannon is 40in wide. To convert it from cat0 to cat1 I had to add some eyelets. See attachments for some dimensions. In the last attachment the tooth sliding bar is visible on the left and the added 'square' eyelet is visible on the right-outboard of the two cat0 'rounded' eyelets.

 

[MJPetersen]

Thanks RichT,

That does help me get a better picture of some things. I like the top link that you have. I have already bought the material for different, but if I do not like it I will be coming back to your arrangement. I was surprised to see that yours does not rotate in the middle of the side plates. And the scarifier box is not touching the blade.

Do you mean that if the center tooth broke that you would have to pull the rod out and thereby dropping several teeth before you got to the one that you wanted? You cannot pull them individually?

Mike